Episode talk:Pass/Fail

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Ishi

Had to get here before anyone jumps to conclusions and adds it to the Healing page. I really, really hope everyone understands that Hiro's entire plot of the episode was a dream, a metaphor for his entire existence as a Hero. It ended with Ishi "healing" Hiro, and I know people are going to say this HAS to be added to the healing page, but we need to keep in mind it was a dream. At the end of the episode, we saw Hiro with a headwrap on. This indicates his tumor was operated on, and the the doctors successfully healed him. That is all.

That said, I thought this episode was great. I'm not sure I agree with Sylar turning a new leaf. Claire finally coming out of her shell (note, I do not mean the closet) about how she puts up walls and wants to stop, felt very sincere to me. As for Samuel, he's snapped, and that's trouble.--Riddler 22:06, 18 January 2010 (EST)

  • Well, I was hoping that they didn't go that cop-out route of having Hiro's ghost mom fix him. But it certainly seems like they did.--Gibbeynator 22:22, 18 January 2010 (EST)
    • I don't know: from what I overheard of the doctors, I doubt they were able to remove the tumor. They thought he'd likely die and Hiro said earlier it was inoperable. Even the best doctors in Japan couldn't remove it.--WarGrowlmon18 22:27, 18 January 2010 (EST)
      • Gibbey, she didn't heal him. It was a dream. War, the doctors SAID it was inoperable, but doctors make mistakes. They didn't try to operate - likely in thoughts that it would kill him sooner. The headwrap shows that the doctors were in fact able to operate on him.--Riddler 22:28, 18 January 2010 (EST)
        • I guess, but until we get some kind of confirmation on that, we shouldn't put it that the doctors saved him. The best doctors in Japan said they couldn't and Hiro doubtlessly has enough money to hire the best to try.--WarGrowlmon18 22:32, 18 January 2010 (EST)
          • Actually, this could lead into an interesting discussion. Do abilities live on after the user dies?--Gibbeynator 22:33, 18 January 2010 (EST)
            • If it wasn't his destiny to die yet, Ishi's spirit may have been sent back to save him. It may be meant to be ambigous: did Ishi save him or did the doctors manage to. They will probably bring it up in a graphic novel or the next episode Hiro is in.--WarGrowlmon18 22:35, 18 January 2010 (EST)
              • Usutu appeared to Matt and helped him develop his telepathy into painting the future. I guess spirits may very well have powers. Green.gif AltesUTC CH 04:11, 19 January 2010 (EST)
  • Regardless if it's a dream or not, it still needs to be noted. Something like "In what appears to be a dream sequence, Ishi healed Hiro's tumor. Afterwards, he came to back life. It is unclear if this a metaphoric device or actually Ishi herself." You guys get the point. We saw it, and in the world of Heroes (where anything and everything is possible) it would be speculation to say if it's just a dream or her spirit. So thus we document it in a without drawing speculative conclusions until we get further confirmation from a writer or a future episode. --OutbackZack 22:41, 18 January 2010 (EST)
    • So let's list it as such under the healing page until we have some kind of confirmation on this.--WarGrowlmon18 22:43, 18 January 2010 (EST)
      • Peter exploding in his dream is listed in the examples of induced radioactivity, isn't it? Green.gif AltesUTC CH 04:11, 19 January 2010 (EST)

Actually the doctors may have saved him. I went to an earlier point in the episode and listened closly and one of the doctors asked what his prognosis was and the other said something like "not good, I normally wouldn't do this procedure" and there was something else but I didn't catch it. The part where Hiro nearly died they did seem to be doing brain surgery so maybe they tried a risky procedure and succeded.--WarGrowlmon18 22:57, 18 January 2010 (EST)

  • Amazing. It's not meant to be ambiguous, War, it's meant to be metaphorical. He was in a dream death-trial. His real life situation was happening at the same time as this trial: The doctors trying to save him was his fight with Adam. Ishi healing him was the doctors operating on the tumor. The headwrap shows this. They wouldn't wrap his head unless they did something on it. The Japanese doctors said it was inoperable and didn't operate, likely 'cause it had a high risk of death and they weren't willing to take the chance. Since Hiro was in critical condition, these doctors did everything they could do to save him, and surpassed the risk and saved him.--Riddler 22:58, 18 January 2010 (EST)
    • Could be, but the doctors were operating on his head at the time he crashed. He could have been healed and had his head wrapped due to the surgery he went through. People who have their heads operated on tend to have those, I watch enough medical shows to know that.--WarGrowlmon18 23:02, 18 January 2010 (EST)
      • (Pssst, they were operating on his head to get at the tumor.)--Riddler 23:03, 18 January 2010 (EST)
        • Riddler you're making a huge glaring omission. Hiro was basically dead and they used the paddles to bring him back, As far as I know it's not appropriate to keep operating on someone when they "crash" honestly even by Heroes standards it wouldn't work. Do they want the tumors gone or do they want Hiro to live. Hiro didn't come back until Dream Ishi healed him, they were likely already done with surgery or they took a pause to save Hiro. Regardless it's either the paddles that brought him back or Ishi, not the surgeons.--Dman dustin 23:07, 18 January 2010 (EST)
          • I think what happened was Hiro crashing was him giving up during the trial at the end there when he judged himself guilty, his fight with Adam was him starting to fight again and Ishi healing him was him really fighting and bringing himself back from the brink. Sometimes its someone's willngness to fight that makes the difference.--WarGrowlmon18 23:09, 18 January 2010 (EST)
            • Dman, sorry for that oversight, I was blinded by certainty that people would turn this into a "ISHI CAN HEAL FROM THE DEAD" thing. War, I like how you put it. The doctors operated on his tumor, he crashed, they used paddles to bring him back, and though he thought he was ready to die, he was willing to fight. Nicely put. :3--Riddler 23:21, 18 January 2010 (EST)
              • Indeed, War, well put! The dream was his mind fighting death while the doctors tried to save the body. --SacValleyDweller (talk) 02:09, 19 January 2010 (EST)
                • There are dozens of actual signs that the person is dead, heartbeat is merely one of them, and doctors rarely have time to check them all. Hiro may not have been dead when Ishi healed him. But I must admit, the metaphore is amazing. I'm glad Hiro is saved. {User:Altes/Signature}} 04:11, 19 January 2010 (EST)
                  • "Some things are more powerful than science. Like destiny." The patient needs inner power to heal, it is Ando's believe in him and his mothers legacy and not only science who healed. --Juba 12:00, 19 January 2010 (EST)
  • Here's the big kicker. If it was just a dream then how did Hiro know Jackie, Ted, and everyone else to dream about them? --OutbackZack 04:21, 19 January 2010 (EST)
    • Noah told him? He read about it a newspaper? Most likely a wizard did it. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 06:58, 19 January 2010 (EST)
      • Good question. I also don't remember him learning that Adam was dead.--Gibbeynator 08:05, 19 January 2010 (EST)
It's hard to keep Supernatural elements out of a show with superpowers.--VanguardLogo.pnganguard 10:15, 19 January 2010 (EST)
In particular, Hiro never met Ted Sprague.  :P --Cosmic AC 14:03, 19 January 2010 (EST)
  • I think it's hard to say exactly what happened...so if the question is whether we should add the example of Ishi's actions to the examples of healing page, then I think we should put exactly what we see. As long as we are clear that it was in a dream, I think it's fine to add it to the examples page. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 16:51, 19 January 2010 (EST)
    • Agreed. With Ando and Sylar in it, it comes off as a dream. With Jackie and the mention of other characters that Hiro never met, saw, or heard of (as far as we know) it comes off as a supernatural thing. I personally think it's supernatural seeing how Hiro and Matt did have spirit walks before which is also supernatural in a sense. Heroes is so confusing haha. But I agree with Ryan, the ability example is worth noting in the appropriate context. --OutbackZack 05:01, 20 January 2010 (EST)
      • Keep telling yourself, "It's just a show, I should really just relax." --Action Figure 06:45, 20 January 2010 (EST)
        • When you want to contribute the right information to the wiki then of course you want to question and look into things. --OutbackZack 17:34, 20 January 2010 (EST)
          • Ryan, I agree with you if you mean it should be noted, but also be noted that the healing act itself was a dream. She didn't physically heal him. Am I interpreting you right? - (Dammit, didn't realize I wasn't logged in. Riddler 6:40PM)
            • We have to be careful about saying that she didn't physically heal him because we simply don't know that. It's possible that it was 100% allegorical and there was no physical healing. It's also possible that Dream Ishi really did somehow heal Hiro. Rather than specifically interpret what happened, we should simply say what we saw. "In Hiro's dream, Ishi heals Hiro's brain tumor." -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 16:37, 22 January 2010 (EST)
  • In a blog post, Ollie Grigsby helps clear up the debate by being purposefully vague. "I wanted to deliberately leave it open as to how Hiro survived -- one could believe that it was the doctors who pulled off a miraculous surgery and the tumor-dream was just a visual representation of that going on Hiro's mind. Or, one could believe that what was happening in the dream was more metaphysical and Hiro was really on trial with "Destiny" and it was Destiny that miraculously spared his life, in the same way that many other incredible things have happened to Hiro. Or, you could believe some combination of the two." So really, in the end, we're not meant to know whether he was actually healed by Ishi, or whether it was a representation of the doctors doing their job. Cool. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 19:57, 15 February 2010 (EST)

Thoughts?

Wouldn't it have been tragic if Hiro was literally minutes from death and then and old lady came into his room, Charlie. The two spent Hiro's last minutes together and he died. Then Kimiko came running into the hospital and Ando had to tell her? Im thrilled Hiro is alive. But I think killing him would have been amazingly sad. --William Strauss 23:35, 18 January 2010 (EST)

new actors and characters

          
          
                     

I think there may have been one more, but a big logo was obscuring the credits for me, so I couldn't read anything... I guess if nobody else knows who it is, then we can wait until the Hulu link appears tomorrow. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 23:47, 18 January 2010 (EST)

Nope, that accounts for everyone who was credited hasn't been seen before.--CourtesyofTVRage.com 00:40, 19 January 2010 (EST)

Quantum Leap

"Objection your honour, he's reciting the opening to Quantum Leap" - I thought this was hilarious, I actually laughed out loud! - Jenx222 | U / T / C | <inlcudeonly>08:00, 7 January 2012 (EST) 00:16, 19 January 2010 (EST)

  • I actually choked on my water. That was a great line! -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 00:43, 19 January 2010 (EST)
    • I'm not sure that's the exactly how the line went, but yeah... I also had to laugh out loud at that. :) This was a fun episode; kudos to Oliver Grigsby on the writing.--MiamiVolts (talk) 00:48, 19 January 2010 (EST)
      • The trial quotes are the best. I laughed so hard when Sylar was listing his victims... a mechanical, my mother, Isaac Mendez, that guy called Ted something... I hate Sylar, but he´s the most sarcastical psychopath ever. --Jmfdr91 01:15, 19 January 2010 (EST)
        • "Willy nilly." -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 01:24, 19 January 2010 (EST)
          • "Sprague, Ted Sprague." ZQ is so funny when he wants to be, and then serious at others, amazing anger. --mc_hammark 07:17, 19 January 2010 (EST)
            • Sorry, I meant actor. Amazing actor. --mc_hammark 07:17, 19 January 2010 (EST)
              • "IGIARI!" Seriously, Ando, Phoenix Wright he is NOT.--Gibbeynator 08:03, 19 January 2010 (EST)
                • Definetly some good quotes in this one, though the Quantum Leap reference eluded me so it lost a fair amount of its impact. Is it a reference to an old US series? Swm 08:24, 19 January 2010 (EST)
                  • See here - Jenx222 | U / T / C | <inlcudeonly>08:00, 7 January 2012 (EST) 11:45, 19 January 2010 (EST)
                    • Only just one of the greatest shows of all time! I grew up watching Quantum Leap, and was always so excited to see where Sam would end up each week. "Oh, boy!" -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 16:41, 19 January 2010 (EST)
                • Often think of song lyrics for certain scenarios (for stories, games, or real life situations). Just because it came from something else doesn't mean it didn't come from the heart.--VanguardLogo.pnganguard 10:18, 19 January 2010 (EST)
          • I wondered why Hiro and Ando didn't name D.L. Hawkins, Noah Bennet, all the captives in Building 26, Matt Parkman, Yaeko and her father, Ando, a cat, and Tadashi as people Hiro saved without ruining the timeline or causing any harm. Oh well. --Cosmic AC 14:14, 19 January 2010 (EST)
          • I liked the little touch that Sylar couldn't remember Ted's name because he doesn't have the memory ability anymore. Although that MAY have been unintentional. -- Tristan0709 talk 18:12, 19 January 2010 (EST)
            • Huh, I never thought of that, good catch. --mc_hammark 18:14, 19 January 2010 (EST)
              • Sylar hasnt had enhanced memory since season 1. He lost all those abilities in season 2. --Action Figure 02:05, 20 January 2010 (EST)
                • Hiro doesn't know that Sylar lost all the Season 1 powers, and since it was Hiro's brain, he does have the powers.-- Yoshi | Talk | Contributions 09:09, 23 January 2010 (EST)
                  • We don't know that for sure. There is a lot of conversation that happens offscreen, and somebody could very easily have filled Hiro in on things that happened, like Sylar losing his powers. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 21:57, 23 January 2010 (EST)
                    • Question: Did Hiro ever even know what Jackie looked like? His mind seems to know an awful lot more than it should... -- Tristan0709 talk 05:36, 25 January 2010 (EST)
                      • Chances are... yes. Given that he felt he failed to save the cheerleader and the fact it was all over the news, chanced are he saw her face somewhere. And for the whole knew more than he should... you've also got to think of the heroes universe as having some sort of afterworld (Mediumship proving that) where ghosts and people can speak to one another and meet people they didn't know. The way I see it, it wasn't so much a dream as a near death experience people have when they're close to death... it may be just a dream but maybe not... and I think in this case, given the heroes universe and Hiro's knowledge of things, he had a near-death experience with real people. --mc_hammark 12:17, 25 January 2010 (EST)

Episode 16, not 15

There's been a lot of confusion about if these episodes are being numbered right or not. Here's the thing, ever since the premier every episode number minus 1 is the chapter number. So this would be episode 16, chapter 15. David Lawrence pointed this out on twitter saying his scripts and call sheets are numbered differently as oppose to what we're saying here. For example, he says his script and call sheet is numbered 4.17 as oppose to 4.16. --OutbackZack 03:59, 19 January 2010 (EST)

  • Correct. For production reasons, the crew all call the episodes by a new number for every hour. So my script for this episode very clearly says "416" all over it. However, on the wiki, what's onscreen is king. The title onscreen clearly says "Chapter 15", so we refer to this as "415" (Season 4, Chapter 15). Thanks for clarifying, OBZ. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 08:15, 19 January 2010 (EST)

Sylar Clothes

Even though it sound like a stupid question. how the heck does Sylar keep getting a change of clothes and a new wardrobe every episode? hH started of with a shirt and jacket in this episode than by the end he's at the door of matt's house in a brand new pea coat. somehow I can't imagine Sylar stopping of to go shopping and going oh this pea coat looks nice. i know he obviously cant where the same clothes every episodes but i'm just wondering how he does! He seems to care a lot about his appearance for a serial killer. especially in season 1 when he threw HRG into a wall and said "That was for the haircut" and what do you know now he's growing his hair! -Devane183516:30, 19 January 2010 (GMT)

  • Remember that with shapeshifting he could also change clothes. It may be that now he's developed it to a stage where he can just change the clothes. And as for why, he's a deranged serial killer who probably thinks that he need's to look cool in whatever he's doing. Also, he's very charismatic in nature, and if you seen someone in a t-shirt that was dirty and smelly, you wouldn't exactly think of them what you do of sylar. --mc_hammark 11:34, 19 January 2010 (EST)
    • You're also guilty of the one-episode/one-day fallacy. It's not necessarily the same day. In fact, it likely isn't, due to the fact that it's a lead in for the next episode--which also isn't necessarily all on one day, linear, etc... You'll find that the one-day/one-episode idea and the idea that it's remotely linear (it isn't--AT ALL) gets blown to hell if you actually map out the show (I have). And he could very well have just flown to wherever he is calling home/his closet and changed clothes. Shapeshifting is also an option. NileQT87 12:52, 19 January 2010 (EST)

Trivia about Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney

I don't think this is intentional, and as such, I don't think it's noteworthy. Though it DOES bare resemblance to the game... that's most likely because the game is about the courtroom... and things like "Objection!" are normal courtroom things. That said, I happen to love the Phoenix Wright games. They're so fun :)--Riddler 13:30, 19 January 2010 (EST)

  • Hmm, now that you mention it, Adam WAS the prosecutor. He was a samurai, and Edgeworth's name pun comes from "sword" so...--Gibbeynator 14:16, 19 January 2010 (EST)
    • No. --Riddler 17:04, 19 January 2010 (EST)

Where was the ice cream store?

I'm a little confused. So where was the ice cream store that Samuel took Vanessa to? He goes there after Vanessa leaves, causes an earthquake, the place starts to shake. Then they cut to a shot of the carnival people going to the valley and watching a buildings collapse. So... was there a nearby town and Samuel destroyed it? Why would they set up the "permanent" carnival location near an existing town? Or was it part of somewhere else? --CourtesyofTVRage.com 13:58, 19 January 2010 (EST)

  • I don't think it was the town Samuel was in either, but others say it was... I was thinking that it was the haven he had built for vanessa and that the buildings were the houses for the other carnies, since they were all meant to settle down. --mc_hammark 14:27, 19 January 2010 (EST)
    • But that would mean that he just destroyed everyone's houses because he was mad at Vanessa and then the carnies just let him through without asking any qúestions? --Vanityvicious 17:32, 20 January 2010 (EST)
      • He just threw an entire valley into the mantle of the earth and was very visibly agitated. Do you have the courage to ask that man why he just did that?Gamerelite1 18:15, 20 January 2010 (EST)
        • Well on second thought, you might have a point there ;) --Vanityvicious 18:20, 20 January 2010 (EST)

Have we met?

What was the "I'm sorry, have we met?" (Janice to Sylar) about? I mean why would she say that? Did they met?-- Yoshi | Talk | Contributions 14:15, 19 January 2010 (EST)

  • They never actually met, but Janice and Sylar's mind got very close earlier this season. - Josh (talk/contribs) 14:23, 19 January 2010 (EST)
    • Very close. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 14:27, 19 January 2010 (EST)
      • Sylar had control of Matt's body when he was having 'relations' with his wife in Episode:Strange_Attractors.--DarrellG 18:13, 19 January 2010 (EST)
        • That doesn't really count, how would Janice be able to recognize him?-- Yoshi | Talk | Contributions 18:17, 19 January 2010 (EST)
          • Yoshi, I think he was just explaning "in more depth" :P --mc_hammark 18:20, 19 January 2010 (EST)
            • Yeah lol, but seriously, isn't it weird that Janice sad that?-- Yoshi | Talk | Contributions 18:23, 19 January 2010 (EST)
              • Possibly it's just his mannerism's from when he was matt that she remembered. --mc_hammark 18:24, 19 January 2010 (EST)
                • Yes, could be. A very wild theory here but what if we find out that she is somekind of lost sister of Sylar lol :P-- Yoshi | Talk | Contributions 18:26, 19 January 2010 (EST)
                  • The last thing we need is a "lost siblings" twist, I cringed when they pulled it with him, Peter and Nathan, I was very glad when it turned out to be a plot to manipulate Sylar. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 18:36, 19 January 2010 (EST)
                    • Save your breath. Some people just don't know what's good and bad for story-telling.--Citizen 22:04, 21 January 2010 (EST)
  • Sylar called Matt jun. Buddy, only Matt does so. So maybe that's the reason. Quicksand 10:16, 20 January (EST)
    • Okay, i just looked the scene like 5 times over and over again. When she asks I'm sorry have we met, you see Sylar's face like Holy #@%$ it is her! and then you hear the Sylar soundtrack. So if you ask me, they did met, highschool or something I think.-- Yoshi | Talk | Contributions 11:44, 20 January 2010 (EST)
      • No I don't think so, because then he would have recognized her when he was still in Matt's head, wouldn't he? --Vanityvicious 17:15, 20 January 2010 (EST)

Sylar writing with his right hand ???

Has anyone else noticed this? Zachary Quinto is left-handed and so is Sylar. Remember the scene in the episode An Invisible Thread where Sylar posing as Nathan has to sign some papers? He does so using his left hand which raises suspicion in Claire who knows that Nathan is right handed. However in this last episode Sylar is writing on the chalkboard with his right hand. Does it have significance? Can it be that his personality somehow merged with Nathan`s and that is the reason he is different now, cannot kill anymore and seeks human contact? --Gogolinooo 15:50, 19 January 2010 (EST)

  • Well I'm pretty sure Zachary quinto is left handed. It would be odd for him to write with his right hand unless instructed to.
    • Not necessarily, I'm right-handed but if I need to write something down quickly I'll use whatever hand is closer to a pen.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 19:36, 19 January 2010 (EST)

he was most likely writing with his right hand as instructed to so we could see what he was writing for the camera. I'm left handed myself and when you write on a board your body obstructs people from seeing what your writing while your writing it hence why Zach was probably using his right hand, although he writes pretty well with it for someone who's left-handed. Devane183502:22, 20 January 2010 (GMT)

  • Or, He was writing with his right hand to add a little more surprise to his reveal to Claire. --SacValleyDweller (talk) 20:20, 20 January 2010 (EST)

Powerless

So after all the episodes, sylar wants to get rid of his powers? ö -- (WaterRatj) 16:05, 19 January 2010 (EST)

  • It would certainly be a way to make him the Gabriel we seen in I am become death. --mc_hammark 16:07, 19 January 2010 (EST)
      • He actually presents himself as "Gabriel" to Janice. --Juba 17:25, 19 January 2010 (EST)
    • Din't he had powers back then? -- (WaterRatj) 16:07, 19 January 2010 (EST)
      • Yeah, but the writers said that the futures were coming true, but in slightly different ways. --mc_hammark 16:09, 19 January 2010 (EST)
        • So now he will be that but without powers? Hmmm daphne is already dead so i knox :p and i find it stupid that after all seasons, sylar will lose his powers? I think this is very lame in my opinion :p -- (WaterRatj) 16:10, 19 January 2010 (EST)
          • Getting rid of one's powers does not necessarily mean physically losing one's powers. It could mean that he is simply not going to use his powers. Time will tell. (I don't have any inside information on this.) -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 16:49, 19 January 2010 (EST)
            • They need to stop messing with Sylar's personality. He is a heartless serial killer, who wants to be special, and very creepy/funny (well, funny to us, not to any of the charactors). He should only be used rarely, because for some reason his storylines are always about trying to find himself, and it's getting very repetitve and boring. --Ratclaws 16:51, 19 January 2010 (EST)
              • I still think he should be written off completely, he's done this type of story arc before. He needs to disappear for a season, and then possibly come back.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 17:11, 19 January 2010 (EST)
                • What if he's trying to get Matt Parkman Jr. to shut off his powers or atleast one or some, kinda like how he reactivated Hiro's powers. - Captain Anarchy
                  • Hopefully, he'll just get rid of IA, leaving the rest of his powers intact.--Gibbeynator 19:33, 19 January 2010 (EST)
                    • IA may work like EM, the base ability is needed to use the acquired abilities.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 19:34, 19 January 2010 (EST)
                      • Maybe we'll finally get an explaination of how IA works. It would totally make up for them destroying Sylar's character to at least give us this.--Gibbeynator 06:53, 20 January 2010 (EST)

Windows shattering?

Anyone got any idea how sylar made the windows in claire's dorm room shatter? daevon 00:49, 20 January 2010 (EST)

  • Take your pick from a number of different abilities. My guess is telekinesis...but I stopped asking how Sylar does things a long time ago. :) -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 00:56, 20 January 2010 (EST)
    • Sylar pulled a similar trick when he and Luke escaped from Danko's agents in Volume 4. It's basically TK (he's ripping the glass out of the window frame). Swm 07:08, 20 January 2010 (EST)
      • I find it intriguing that the only times Sylar actively shatters glass is after he lost shattering in Season Two. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 16:53, 21 January 2010 (EST)
  • Ollie Grigsby confirmed that it was telekinesis that Sylar used to shatter the windows. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 21:31, 15 February 2010 (EST)

Hank

  • When Sylar is listing his victims, after Eden he mentions a Primatech agent (I don´t remember the exact quote). If that guy is Hank, he should be listed as been refered to. --Jmfdr91 03:13, 20 January 2010 (EST)
    • I THINK he says that he took down 2 Primatech agents.--Gibbeynator 06:48, 20 January 2010 (EST)
      • Gail and Bianca right? daevon 16:36, 20 January 2010 (EST)
        • Considering he was telling them in order, I'd think not... probably Hank and another un-named agent who was in the facility and tried to stop him. --mc_hammark 16:38, 20 January 2010 (EST)

Claire does LOVE Gretchen?

So, in this episode it made notable mentions to how Claire likes Gretchen more than a friend.. Does anyone think they might end up together or something? --Scorvi12 03:26, 20 January 2010 (EST)

  • Dear GOD I hope not... the fanfiction would just be... *shudder*--Gibbeynator 06:47, 20 January 2010 (EST)
    • That seems to be the implication. It doesn't actually bother me, as I don't read Heroes fanfiction, nor would I find people writing about a canon pairing objectionable. Swm 07:10, 20 January 2010 (EST)
      • This has the potential to be very, VERY bad... a potential increase in fanfics from people who don't know how to write, writing what they think lesbians are... how many fan powers do you think they'll give Gretchen?--Gibbeynator 10:04, 20 January 2010 (EST)
        • I'm going to write a fanfiction about the two lovers. But I'm not going to give gretchen powers. At least not in the first volume. lol. I'm joking, gretchen will definitly have powers. (ctrl+shift+sarcastic button) --mc_hammark 10:16, 20 January 2010 (EST)
          • I really don't think fans need them to be an actual couple on the show to write ff's about it - i mean i even read sylar plus peter fictions (they were horrible, btw. and truly disturbing), and where could that possibly come from?? they just have a loooot of imagination ;) --Vanityvicious 17:20, 20 January 2010 (EST)
            • I hope they end up together... Claire's happy, so that makes me happy!! And plus they're awesome together :D --Ellexoxo 09:03, 23 January 2010 (EST)
              • I hope they don't end up together, as Claire was supposed to be straight and not bisexual or lesbian. I mean, she had only shown attraction to guys in the first four seasons. If they wanted her to be a lesbian or even bisexual, they should have done it earlier than now (much earlier). Pokeria1 08:22, 26 January 2010 (EST)
                • People develop at different rates. Plus there is a such thing as bisexuality and pansexuality. For some, sex orientation is not written in stone.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 10:18, 26 January 2010 (EST)
                  • Maybe not in real life, but they still would have had to actually add in hints towards her orientation in the prior seasons. Besides which, if she's bisexual/pansexual, that means she has developed attractions to BOTH genders at almost the exact same time. None of the previous seasons had her crushing or even having an attraction to a female before, and considering how she was a member of the cheerleading squad in all three seasons, that's saying quite a lot. And sex orientation IS set in stone, as it is basically with a person from the day they are born, and is written and wired into one's DNA. I know I'm straight because of this, as I have never had and never can have any attractions to males, whileas I DID have attractions to females. Pokeria1 15:31, 27 January 2010 (EST)
                    • You can't say that's true, you don't honestly know that. For all you know there is someone who was straight and now is bisexual. It's your opinion that it's hardwired into DNA, not definitely true. --mc_hammark 15:37, 27 January 2010 (EST)
                      • I agree with Mc hammark, that's not proven. However, I think this particular line of discussion should stop now, before someone gets seriously offended.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 15:44, 27 January 2010 (EST)
                        • Agreed. --mc_hammark 15:45, 27 January 2010 (EST)
  • One thing to say: What the f***!?"

Milkshake

When Samuel was destroying the town, all I could think about was that lovely milkshake that got destroyed. He could have at least drunk it, then destroyed the town!--Isaac Mendez 18:53, 20 January 2010 (EST)

  • That whole lauren turning samuel down n den him being crazy depressed was like the most emotional moment ever in the whole show's history to me. daevon 19:24, 20 January 2010 (EST)
    • I felt more upset for the girl at the diner, she was just checking to see if he was okay.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 20:21, 20 January 2010 (EST)
      • Could have been worse, he could have been chanting "Die, milkshake!" as he leveled the town.--Gibbeynator 20:31, 20 January 2010 (EST)
        • "It's all your fault!"--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 20:40, 20 January 2010 (EST)
          • Lauren??? Daevon, I think you might have confused her, isn't Lauren Noah's girl? I think you meant Vanessa ;) --Vanityvicious 05:26, 21 January 2010 (EST)
            • Oh yeah, my bad, i meant vanessa. daevon 20:15, 21 January 2010 (EST)
      • I DRINK YOUR... MILKSHAKE! --Action Figure 22:44, 21 January 2010 (EST)

Hiro's Trial

Why didn't Hiro (or Ando for that matter) object to Adam's argument about how Hiro let Sylar murder all those people if Sylar spared Charlie? Hiro should have the memories of prior to him messing with the timeline, so why didn't they bring up the fact that Sylar killed all those people regardless of Hiro's role of saving Charlie? And what about the argument that Sylar killed people prior to meeting up with Charlie/Hiro? I suppose they didn't want to drag out the courtroom scene, but it would've been a great counterargument in my opinion. --Dman dustin 21:17, 21 January 2010 (EST)

  • Hiro didn't need to win the trial. He needed to admit he broke his code and admit it with honor.Gamerelite1 21:19, 21 January 2010 (EST)
  • I think the argument was that he could have stopped Sylar, given his powers and his claim that he wanted to fix mistakes. But, then again, it could just be that they didn't want to drag the courtroom scene out.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 21:20, 21 January 2010 (EST)
    • However Hiro stopping Sylar, probably would've had a major effect to space-time continuum then simply just some "selfish" desire of saving Charlie. Killing Sylar then probably would've had a major butterfly effect on the rest of the world probably destroying it in the process. He already repaired the timeline, by getting Past Hiro to go back a few weeks to Charlie, telling Ando to wait for Past Hiro, and a lot of other things. Letting Sylar go his merry way probably also repaired the timeline in regards to that. But I guess it was conflict inside Hiro's mind that made it like that. I guess Hiro was feeling guilty about Charlie being lost in time, right after saving her.--Dman dustin 21:34, 21 January 2010 (EST)
      • I read Adam's argument as being that Hiro promised not to interfere with the rest of Sylar's kills if he saved Charlie. Both we and Hiro know this is not true (not least because he ran Sylar through with a sword at Kirby Plaza). Hiro could have argued that Sylar would have gone on to kill everyone he did anyway, but in the current timeline Adam was arguing that Hiro was indirectly responsible for all the deaths that followed, as he could have stopped Sylar in the past, but didn't. Had Hiro appealed to the Butterfly Effect for a justification as you suggest, Adam would probably just counter with the point that "if you're so scared of the butterfly effect, why did you save Charlie in the first place?" And then Hiro really would have been screwed. Swm 07:17, 22 January 2010 (EST)

Ending Idea

I'm wondering if Sylar decides to get Matt Parkman Jr to disable his powers and become normal for a few epidodes, that will lead us to the last couple of episodes where Samuel can wreak havok and everyone will need help. Peter is no longer the lead protaganist so they wil need to convince Sylar to get his powers back so save them. (I bit like superman 2 where he becomes normal for Lois).--Aloysius 07:19, 22 January 2010

Why!?

Maybe I'm a bad person for thinking this, but: Why, why why did Hiro have to survive?!? Sure, he's a former great character. And note that I ad former, cause he hasn't had a decent storyline since season two. They've just made parodys of him. Takeing him through the most embarrasing stories on tv in a long time. It's painfull to see. I was glad that he got a tumor so that he could get a decent death, an hounorfull death. But no, they have to make him survive. And I have a feeling that they're just gonna put him through the same crap that they have the last two seasons. --Tacroy 20:23, 23 January 2010 (EST)

  • While I disagree with that statement that Hiro hasn't had any good story lines since Season 2, I don't think he should have survived, or come so close to death. It's only adding to the common belief that nobody dies on Heroes.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 20:40, 23 January 2010 (EST)
    • They should've had Hiro keep the tumor and in the season finale, he's in the hospital and it just ends on that cliffhanger. daevon 22:25, 23 January 2010 (EST)
      • How is dying from a tumor an "honorful death"? I'm not even 100% sure honorful is a real word ;) --Vanityvicious 06:34, 24 January 2010 (EST)
        • I mean Honourable death. Sorry, mixed it up with the swedish word...And maybe I should clear up what I mean byt that. I just mean that if he did from the tumor it would have shown that not even heroes are immune to diseases, and that they in the end are humans. Sure, they could have kept the whole battle with Adam about if he was going to go through the light with true honour or not. But still, let him die.--Tacroy 07:02, 24 January 2010 (EST)
          • I disagree very much with the idea that Hiro should have died in this episode. He's had a good storyline this season (for me, anyway), that needs to be seen to its conclusion. I must also agree with the idea that him being killed by a brain tumour would by no means be an honourable death. Had they wanted it to kill him, then I would rather he died at the end of the Volume, having saved Charlie and been crucial in the fight against Samuel. Then he really would have died a hero, instead at some arbitrary time halfway through the story. Swm 08:17, 24 January 2010 (EST)

Did Samuel teleport?

He was pressing buttons on some machine in his carnival, and then he suddenly appeared in O'Mallory's. How? Green.gif AltesUTC CH 09:43, 25 January 2010 (EST)

  • That machine was the jukebox inside O'Mallory's. --Radicell 09:45, 25 January 2010 (EST)

I dont get it...

...Claire sees Sylar's tattoo of Claire and later Sylar states to Claire that he got that instrument from Lydia. Claire doesn't know that Sylar is able to get abilities in an empathic way, so she should think that Lydia is dead. But in tAoD, she sees Lydia alive but isn't shocked or anything, Weird.-- Yoshi | Talk | Contributions 10:46, 8 February 2010 (EST)

  • Who says Claire doesn't know that Sylar is able to get abilities empathically? Maybe she found out sometime during an untelevised (or unfilmed) scene. Plus, the tattoo comes from Samuel, not Lydia. So perhaps Claire assumed that Samuel gave Sylar the tattoo and then Lydia told him about it. That's what I would have assumed. :) -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 11:03, 8 February 2010 (EST)
    • To be honest, I think the writers just made an mistake.-- Yoshi | Talk | Contributions 11:08, 8 February 2010 (EST)