Episode talk:The Wall

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WHOA.

So, mid-episode thought, but does anyone get the feeling that the telekinetic guy who attacked Noah in 1985 might be someone we've seen before? Sure looks like him, and it would damn well explain a lot. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 21:17, 1 February 2010 (EST)

  • Apparently his name is "Richard". Neeevermind. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 21:29, 1 February 2010 (EST)
    • That's what I thought too. It certainly seems like they just added that line identifying him so that we would NOT be having this discussion.--Gibbeynator 06:33, 2 February 2010 (EST)
  • I almost thought it was Sylar's father. (something Gray, I forgot) But weren't they both cold blood killers, telekinetic, and look freakishly the same? Dance4thedead 21:38, 5 February 2010 (EST)
    • That's who we were talking about from the very first post on this thread. Samson Gray. But no, the guy's name is apparently Richard, so unless that's a pseudonym, it's not Samson. --Clairesxtwin48 23:56, 5 February 2010 (EST)

Did... did they...

Did they just retcon 'Company Man'?--Gibbeynator 21:42, 1 February 2010 (EST)

  • Actually I don't think so: they show Bennet's being approached by The Company and then afterwards. They never reshow that part from Company Man and to me it still fits in.--WarGrowlmon18 21:44, 1 February 2010 (EST)
    • According to the page here, the earliest point in Company Man was 15 years before the then present story, while a good chunk of this story takes place over 20 years before.--Gibbeynator 21:54, 1 February 2010 (EST)
      • Yes, but what they showed in Company Man was AFTER Bennet had been fully trained as an agent. You figure Thompson first approached him 23 years ago, approximately. And the initial flashback from Company Man was... what, eighteen years ago? That would allow some time for training and full induction into the Company. --Clairesxtwin48 23:02, 1 February 2010 (EST)
        • But then he wouldn't know Claude, would he? We saw that Noah was introduced to Claude in 1991, but here, it's several years earlier and he's been working with Claude for some time.--Gibbeynator 06:15, 2 February 2010 (EST)
          • Is the scene with Thompson and Noah dated? It's possible that it takes place after the other events (post 1991), thus fitting into the timeline perfectly. Swm 07:12, 2 February 2010 (EST)
            • Noah and Thompson had to have met for lunch BEFORE 1992, because we know that Noah and Sandra were together when they got Claire in 1992. Come to think of it, according to the timeline page, Noah and Sandra were married in 1985, when this episode establishes they didn't meet until at LEAST 1986.--Gibbeynator 08:42, 2 February 2010 (EST)
              • Yeah, but Thompson introduces Noah to Claude in the Company Man Episode, So this wouls have to have been AFTER that, which we know makes no sense. --Action Figure 09:06, 2 February 2010 (EST)
                • Here's the timeline of events as it stands. 1985, Noah marries Sandra. Noah's wife Kate is killed. 1986, Noah goes on his revenge trip. Noah is hired by the Company. 1986-1988, Noah works with Claude, and is mandated by Thompson to get married. (1986-1988)-1992, Noah marries Sandra. 1991, Noah is hired by the Company and is introduced to his partner Claude. 1992, Bennets adopt Claire. See the problem?--Gibbeynator 09:15, 2 February 2010 (EST)
                  • Yes, there's definitely something off. We don't know exactly when Noah and Sandra met, but in Turn and Face the Strange, Noah said they were together 22 years; depending on when that episode took place (somewhere between 2007 and 2009), that means Noah and Sandra met somewhere between 1985 and 1987. Also, the scene in Company Man very much shows Noah surprised by Claude's invisibility, and that scene took place "15 years ago", meaning fifteen years before 2006, which is 1991. So in The Wall, Noah meets Sandra after he has met Claude, which contradicts previous information. Oh well! -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 17:45, 2 February 2010 (EST)
                    • Contradictions, contradictions, contradictions. All I can say is, Volume 2. When Hiro when back and changed history there, it must have had some sort of effect. --mc_hammark 17:50, 2 February 2010 (EST)
                    • As obnoxious an explanation as it is, it's possible that Hiro changing Adam's past caused him to be there to bring the Company founders together at Coyote Sands (whereas before they may have found each other some other way), which in turn resulted in their hunting Richard in the 80s, which resulted in Kate's death and forcing Bennet to join the Company and marry Sandra years earlier than he would have. Time is tricky like that. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 17:58, 2 February 2010 (EST)
                      • That's not time screwups, that's COLOSSALLY bad continuity catching. I keep fearing that Heroes is turning into Countdown, with the bad continuity, epic plot holes and random character death, but I must accept that it's already too far gone.--Gibbeynator 06:52, 3 February 2010 (EST)
                        • On the contrary. We know events XYZ were true before Hiro went back in time. If he changes the past (which he did, quite substanstially in Adam's case) such that XYZ are no longer true or thrown into doubt, there's no longer a contradiction if new information is given which states XYZ did not happen. This appears to have been the case here, as Hiro's actions are the only ones that affect the Company in any way. There's no continuity problem here at all- the events of Company Man and our prior information belong to the unchanged timeline, while this information belongs in the current one. Swm 07:22, 3 February 2010 (EST)
                          • That would be beyond STUPID, to say that any timeline inconsistancy was caused by Hiro screwing up Adam's life.--Gibbeynator 15:41, 3 February 2010 (EST)
                            • I don't see how it's stupid. It's the only thing we can think of that could have caused the inconsistencies, if that was the plan by the writers... but since it was probably an error by the writers, this is the only way we can see for it to be covered up. --mc_hammark 15:44, 3 February 2010 (EST)
                • While it is a likely a contradiction (and certainly not the first we've seen from Heroes) there are possible explanations. Hiro altered the timeline again this season, with Sylar. Who's to say that when you alter a timeline the events before the alteration aren't also changed? Or, if you don't accept that possibility, the timeline could've been altered by Arnold. We have no idea where or when he put Charlie (unless it's in those GNs), so maybe that changed things with Noah and Sandra or Claude. --Stevehim 16:48, 3 February 2010 (EST)
                • I totally forgot about the Charlie/Arnold thing, but the "Who's to say that when you alter a timeline the events before the alteration aren't also changed?" bit... common sense. Altering events can only influence people to take different actions after that interference, not before. But that's a totally different argument. --mc_hammark 16:54, 3 February 2010 (EST)
                  • I would say 'conventional thinking,' not 'common sense,' as this is time travel we're talking about; meaning there's no evidence at all about how something like that would work...it's all science fiction or theory at this point, so who knows if altering something could also alter things before it...there are any number of ways to support that idea as well (eg - time as a circle, time representing alternate realities, time as a function of the speed of light, etc). You are right that this is another argument though...if you (or anyone else) wants to discuss it further, feel free to post on my talk page, if not here. --Stevehim 19:05, 3 February 2010 (EST)
                    • I'm beginning to see why the canceled Behind the Eclipse. Aron and Joe were too busy to answer 50 emails a week about "when did we jump to 2009?" or "why does The Wall contradict Company Man so much?"--Gibbeynator 07:36, 4 February 2010 (EST)
    • Maybe the Haitian did it. --Action Figure 23:13, 8 February 2010 (EST)

Now Now

  • I really loved this episode, and now that the Carnival is going to New York, does anyone else see the little futures we have seen are going to become one be future for example Sylar being Good, and a Earth being blow-wen up, and Specials being hunt etc if they pull this oh my god--Skyeatsout 22:06, 1 February 2010 (EST)

eli, you cocky fool

Yes, good luck trying to stop peter and sylar. The 2 most powerful specials. R.I.P. Eli. We hardly knew ye.Gamerelite1 22:08, 1 February 2010 (EST)

  • I was just thinking that. Sylar is, well, god, and Peter can do whatever Sylar can. Eli's toast.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 22:09, 1 February 2010 (EST)
    • Did Eli ever meet Sylar? If he did, all he knew was that he could use some low-level telekinesis and electricity - he barely utilized his powers at all while he was in the carnival.--NovaX81 22:13, 1 February 2010 (EST)
      • Yeah I don't think eli has ever met them. Ergo, he has no idea the horrible, horrible rape about to befall him.Gamerelite1 22:14, 1 February 2010 (EST)
        • I think they're trying to set up Sylar as someone who's not going to kill anymore.--Gibbeynator 22:17, 1 February 2010 (EST)
          • That doesn't mean he won't defend his life though.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 22:20, 1 February 2010 (EST)
            • Eli's an idiot. Maybe Sylar and Peter can finally put a stop to him. I don't like that guy. All Peter has to do is replicate one of Sylar's major powers (he no longer needs telepathy now that he's freed Sylar) and the two will kick some serious ass. Peter and Sylar working together........... oh can't wait to see that fight and Eli obviously loses given Sylar shows up to save Emma. Maybe Peter will be able to replicate all of Sylar's abilities now that he has more time to try to do that and will regain at least some of his former power. Maybe Peter will finally get to kill someone on purpose and finally put an end to Eli himself. I had so wanted him to be the one to kill Arthur Petrelli.--WarGrowlmon18 22:23, 1 February 2010 (EST)
              • Maybe peter will try using telepathy to make the clones fall asleep n then it'll be revealed the clones dont have minds and sylar will have to do all the work.daevon 22:26, 1 February 2010 (EST)
                • Speaking of Eli, I love how he said that he and Lauren played some cat and mouse, and the mouse got away. Nice tie in to tonight's iStory. And yes, Eli is a big, hulking, slab of idiot. :) -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 22:54, 1 February 2010 (EST)
                  • Hmm. Todays latest Istory you say? Perhaps I will check that out, but if only I knew who wrote it.Gamerelite1 23:38, 1 February 2010 (EST)
      • I personally think that Matt is going to be the one to take Eli out. Heroes has classically given us a season finale in which every character contributes to the final turnout, and although you could say that Matt's done his piece by whammying Sylar, thus allowing him to find his redemption, I still think he's going to end up whammying Eli to allow Peter and Sylar to escape. --Clairesxtwin48 23:43, 1 February 2010 (EST)
        • For reals Sylar can just snap his fingers and make the problem go away. --Action Figure 23:47, 1 February 2010 (EST)
          • But just because he can doesn't mean he will. I'm pretty sure it's gonna end up being Matt. It's either that, or he goes with them to New York, and I just don't see Matt running out on his wife and son again just now. --Clairesxtwin48 23:56, 1 February 2010 (EST)
            • Maybe Peter will take IA from Sylar, slice open his head, take Sylar's powers, and then the both of them will be super powered again.--Gibbeynator 09:28, 2 February 2010 (EST)

I doubt Samuel would have sent his lieutenant to fight Sylar. The Prime Eli must be at the carnival. Btw Ryan, I loved your Purpose chapter. Good to know that there are still some good guys at the carnival, and The Watcher... Green.gif AltesUTC CH 02:25, 2 February 2010 (EST)

  • Thanks, Altes! :) -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 17:46, 2 February 2010 (EST)
      • Yeah, I don't know what Samuel was thinking, as Eli is no match for them (he's barely a match for Lauren and Noah). I think it's likely going to be a scene of Eli vs Peter with Sylar incapacitated by a fear that he might hurt/kill someone, until he overcomes it (or, possibly, Matt will initially side with Eli out of hatred for Sylar). Either way, Sylar and Peter are obviously not going to be stopped. What I am afraid of, however, is that Sylar will somehow die in the NY confrontation (even though I still consider that a direct contradiction of canon, unless he loses his powers), since most reformed villains with as much blood on their hands as he has only have the 'sacrificial way out.' --Stevehim 13:13, 2 February 2010 (EST)

What if Peter doesn't resort to Sylar's powers, but mimicks Eli's own? An army of Elis vs. an army of Peters... How cool would that be? :-)--DrIstvaan 13:30, 3 February 2010 (EST)

  • An Army of Peters would be epic, I admit, but I doubt it'll happen. Matt will likely just deal with the Prime using telepathy. Unless Eli already has Matt trussed up somewhere that is (which would make sense- otherwise how else did he get in?) Swm 18:18, 4 February 2010 (EST)
    • If it's telepathy, then Peter can handle it as well; he still has Matt's ability.--DrIstvaan 03:19, 5 February 2010 (EST)
      • Angela has said that only sylar can save emma, so that means that sadly peter won't be taking IA :(. But I do believe that he might try taking cloning. I would very much like that.
        • That doesn't mean Peter can't take IA...Angela never specified that IA was used at all. --Stevehim 09:45, 7 February 2010 (EST)
          • but if he has IA, he can have all of sylars power, and then there's no need for sylar to save emma.Gamerelite1 19:40, 7 February 2010 (EST)
            • I'd like to point out that Sylar really hasn't demonstarted that he got all of his powers back after being tricked/entombed/stuck in a telepathic world by Matt. Sure he blasted himself out of the wall thingy, but he had the empathetic link with the guy he got telekinesis from and it could have carried over(like Season 3). Yeah, Eli is a stone head from standing up against Peter and Sylar, but Peter can be pretty stupid too. (aka Peter, after he finds he has Ted's power; "Oh look, I explode. Now that Ted got his brain removed by ome pychopath, let me go back to NY where I can possibly explode and kill .07% of the world!") Eli's toast, but Sylar is being all mushy-gushy right now and Peter is still airheaded. That is going to be one intresting fight they scrap enough money to make it the way it should be. (Closed doors and bright light doesn't count)--Dance4thedead 21:43, 7 February 2010 (EST)
            • True, he hasn't shown he has any of his powers (except TK) back yet, but is there a reason to assume Matt sticking him inside his own head affected them at all? I disagree that Peter going back to NY was stupid...he was trying to get out of NY but once Sylar had Ted's power, Claire and Noah convinced him to stay to stop Sylar. I do agree that the Future Peter v Sylar fight would have been great to see without a door in the way though.  :) --Stevehim 10:08, 8 February 2010 (EST)

One of the best episodes ever?

I was so amazed by tonight's episode I was able to look over the tired metaphor of a wall as a personal barrier. Personally, I love any episode where Peter and Sylar are buddies, but this episode had some superb acting and Noah and Claire fate is quite ominous. What does everyone else think?--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 22:08, 1 February 2010 (EST)

  • Loved it myself, personally I cant help but wonder 'how long will Eli's clones last against both Peter and Sylar'.My guess, not long. -- Tbora 22:19, 1 February 2010 (EST)
    • It was alright, like a 3.9 out of 5. Kind of slow in the beginning, but picked up right at the end. daevon 22:23, 1 February 2010 (EST)
      • I thought it was a great episode. I didn't see anything slow about it. I mean, we started off learning that Noah has a wife and a whole life before Sandra and the kids. Holy cow! -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 22:55, 1 February 2010 (EST)

The Wall (the one in the episode) and what it represented

I think the wall was created by Peter's own fears of letting Sylar go, at least his subconcious fear and most likely anger. It manifested as a wall that blocked them from escaping and it obviously wasn't put there by Matt given what happened. Notice how once Peter accepted Sylar's changed and maybe forgave him at least a bit, the wall was easily broken. I think that was him letting go of that subconious fear and anger that was blocking him.--WarGrowlmon18 22:27, 1 February 2010 (EST)

  • Yep. I believe you said it fairly accurately.--Halfxwitted 22:32, 1 February 2010 (EST)
    • Well when you consider that even when Sylar fully went at berserk at the wall it did not come down, and that when Peter did forgive him it started to crack it becan.Which actually makes sense when you think about it.I mean Peter did have Matt's ability so his emotions would effect the mindscape greater then even Sylar's own.Same thing basically occurs between Matt inside of the Speedsters Mind when she is dying. -- Tbora 22:32, 1 February 2010 (EST)
      • You know what, I wonder how the writers did came up with that idea, because there's a book called "Die Wand" (german for the wall) by Marlen Haushofer and it's strange how similar the book is to this story. But on the other hand, the book is only famous in Austria and Germay so maybe it's just a coincidence....--Vanityvicious 09:25, 3 February 2010 (EST)

The Wrong Focus?

Does anyone else feel that entirely too much time is devoted towards HRG/Claire. Did we actually learn anything relevant in this episode about HRG that warranted taking away time from the plot from moving forward? Pointless filler if you ask me. Also while you're asking me, I feel essential information about the 'years' Peter/Sylar were trapped should have been shown.--Halfxwitted 22:29, 1 February 2010 (EST)

  • I think we're supposed to leave that to imagination (and fanfiction for all those writters out there).--WarGrowlmon18 22:33, 1 February 2010 (EST)
    • I agree with you one hundred percent, even if for a filler, the Noah flashbacks were actually pretty cool and developed him further as a character. -- Tbora 22:35, 1 February 2010 (EST)
      • I didn't see anything as filler. I learned about Noah's motives, why he originally joined the Company, his first obsession, his relationship with Claude, and how all that has affected his mind to make him who he is today. It brought it all back home when we learned that he threatened Gretchen. You can take the man out of the Company, but you can't take the Company out of the man. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 22:58, 1 February 2010 (EST)
    • I think they could have told the same story in less space and given us more of the shift in the balance between Peter and Sylar, but I didn't feel that the revelations about HRG were by any means 'filler.' I have a feeling that it's all going to come to bear weight, either in the season finale or in the potential Volume Six. I just think they could have done it with more brevity. --Clairesxtwin48 23:05, 1 February 2010 (EST)

Hey...

It was that one flashback only ability again! The guys with that ability sure have a hard time staying alive. At least this one didn't have a daughter he was defending.--Ratclaws 22:34, 1 February 2010 (EST)

  • Number 1 Rule of Seismic Burst: Seconds after activating your ability, you will be shot and killed. No exceptions. --Whizzles 22:47, 1 February 2010 (EST)
    • Number 2 rule of seismic burst you will always, always be in a black and white flashback.Gamerelite1 23:34, 1 February 2010 (EST)
      • I feel those rules should be reversed. Rule One: Your ability can only be used in black and white flashbacks. Rule Two: If you use it, expect to die by gunshot within a few seconds.--Riddler 23:38, 1 February 2010 (EST)
        • Rule three: You have a 66.6% chance of getting killed off by Noah at rule two.--ERROR 17:41, 3 February 2010 (EST)
          • That is so mean. Mean and incredibly accurate. The writers seem to love pulling deja vu on us.--Dance4thedead 21:47, 7 February 2010 (EST)

Revelations about Noah

That explains his hatred of specials and his blood-thirsty methods at points although I wish we knew if he ever found Richard or not. Imagine having to go through all of that. He noticably changed, note at the cardealership the last time he wasn't so helpful with the couple and instead was pushing to sell the car he wanted sold.--WarGrowlmon18 22:36, 1 February 2010 (EST)

  • He found, in his own words, his "killer instinct". -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 22:59, 1 February 2010 (EST)

Peter's dream of Emma

I think I get it now: Samuel is going to use Doyle to force Emma to use her power to summon people to the Carnival where he and the other carnies will terrorize them with their powers and kill them. Emma won't be directly responsible for the deaths, she's just the lure. That preview also confirmed Doyle was controlling her too. I love those lines by Sylar and Doyle: "your one of us!!!!!!!!!!!", "no, I'm a hero." Never thought I'd hear Sylar say that and mean it.--WarGrowlmon18 22:39, 1 February 2010 (EST)

  • Let's be careful about discussing spoilers here... -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 23:00, 1 February 2010 (EST)
    • I know, but I just had to bring it up. Besides, I figured it was something like that before we saw the preview. That was my take when we learned Samuel's plans and the preview just confirmed it for me.--WarGrowlmon18 23:02, 1 February 2010 (EST)

The Carnival's teleportation ability

I know this isn't important, but I really wish they'd give us some kind of an explanation for that as it can clearly teleport.--WarGrowlmon18 22:41, 1 February 2010 (EST)

  • Au contraire, it is QUITE important. And I do wish they'd explain it. I personally think it has something to do with Samuel's terrakinesis. Either that, or someone in the Carnival has a trans-locational ability of some kind. Like Hiro's teleporting, only for a more general area instead of an individual...? --Clairesxtwin48 23:00, 1 February 2010 (EST)
    • It's gotta go to New York for the finale, right? We might finally get an explanation when it jumps one last time. Swm 09:41, 2 February 2010 (EST)

Howie Kaplan

Didnt sylar say something about howie kaplan beating peter at something? daevon 22:42, 1 February 2010 (EST)

  • He did, beating him on the football field or something like that.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 22:50, 1 February 2010 (EST)
    • It was the 50-yard dash. And it was our third Howie Kaplan. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 22:59, 1 February 2010 (EST)
      • I think it's safe to say that Peter could have gone to high school in the same year as Slick when they werer kids and didnt know about their abilities yet. In fact, being able to trip other people would be useful for a football player. I think it's not to much of a stretch to assume they're the same. Usually they don't throw around full names of existing characters for no reason, even if it was the same name as a crew member.--Piemanmoo 01:11, 2 February 2010 (EST)
        • You're right, it's not too much of a stretch to assume they're the same. But I do think both names are references to the crew member, and that Nathan's memory was not a reference to the oil guy. I can ask Adam Armus and Kay Foster, though. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 18:07, 2 February 2010 (EST)
          • I got a response back that basically said that every mention of every character and every Easter egg has been thought out well in advance. Very cool. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 07:57, 3 February 2010 (EST)

Wrap up or expand?

Do you think that this season is going to end nicely without any loose ends, all villains taken care of and plots foiled like every other season, or do you think that next episode is going to create something completely epic to be expanded upon in the next volume? Personally, I hope it will be the latter, I'm really enjoying this story arc and it has tons of potential.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 22:53, 1 February 2010 (EST)

  • Who knows. I'd really like to see a genuinly good Sylar for at least a season before the show ends permanantly. I'm so sick of him as an unstoppable villian. If he really has turned over a new leaf, he and Peter could make an incredible team. I always thought that if they didn't hate each other so much and Sylar wasn't so evil, the two could be good friends.--WarGrowlmon18 22:57, 1 February 2010 (EST)
  • I think they're going to be tying up a lot of plots, on the offchance (fingers crossed, people!) that the show is canceled, but I also think they're going to leave a few loose ends to carry over into the next season. Like what they did with season one, hinting that Sylar wasn't dead after all, etc. Give them a lead-in to whatever comes next. But I agree with WarGrowlmon18- it would be nice to see Sylar actually achieve this goal of redemption that he's been struggling with and MAKE IT STICK. --Clairesxtwin48 23:07, 1 February 2010 (EST)
    • Yeah and I really want to see Sylar and Peter as a team trying to save the world. That's got some great possiblities right there. Maybe next season (or at least Volume) could be about Sylar's search for personal redemption as a true hero aided by his former enemy and new friend Peter. If he ever wants his powers blocked, Peter could probably do it himself if he copies telepathy again from Matt, but if Sylar has truly changed, he may want to use them for good now. With Volume 3, I think he really did want redemption, but the Hunger and the realization that he was just being manipulated set him back on an evil path. If he's helped by someone who truly beleives in him, then I think he has a chance.--WarGrowlmon18 23:25, 1 February 2010 (EST)
      • I'm thinking we're gonna want to keep an eye on Peter and Parkman. I can't quite put my finger on it, but both seem to be a bit drunk by the idea of helping people or themselves, and they seem to be the only ones who would have any real conflict past the Carnival. But beyond that, I have a weird feeling there's going to be a sort of human/special war when the general public sees what these people can do. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 17:56, 2 February 2010 (EST)
        • Parkman's really not going to like that Peter ruined both his own revenge and his attempts to keep Sylar from hurting anyone, all to save one woman. One recurring theme seems to be that he is very easily influenced by other people, hence Janice convincing him to lock Sylar up in the first place. By contrast, Peter seems unable to let the people he cares about die for the sake of the bigger picture (ignoring the point that Sylar was redeemed anyway and the threat is seemingly gone). I can see that one being nasty in the next episode, and possibly longer. Swm 07:26, 3 February 2010 (EST)

Suresh

According to the NBC blurb about this episode, Sendhil was supposed to appear. What happened? --Action Figure 00:00, 2 February 2010 (EST)

  • They probably realized that Mohinder is like the most boring character on Heroes (at least in my opinion)and decided not to let him appear. ;)--Vanityvicious 09:32, 3 February 2010 (EST)
  • But he was only like that when they gave him a power and tried to pair him up with Maya. (sulk) Ok fine, he is pretty boring, but would you rather have him rot inside some insane asylum in Florida? Dance4thedead 21:48, 5 February 2010 (EST)
    • Haha, actually I don't really care... If they'd just kill him off for good, I wouldn't mind at all. --Vanityvicious 15:21, 6 February 2010 (EST)

Minor Thing

I am wondering if we should be referring to Sylar, as Sylar or Gabriel? As he has said he has changed.

  • still the same guy, just had a change of heart.Gamerelite1 00:15, 2 February 2010 (EST)
    • Well he has always been the same person, even when he thought he was Nathan.What I meant, is that depending on how he felt he would either refuse to be called anything but Sylar when he was feeling evil.Or anything but Gabriel when he was good.So as of now, what is wanting to be called, and in turn, what should be be calling him? -- Tbora 00:18, 2 February 2010 (EST)
      • We will refer to the character as Gabriel if he begins referring to himself as Gabriel. We will only move his page if he is referred to as Gabriel consistently for, oh, say four seasons straight, to match the four seasons he's been called Sylar. :) -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 00:51, 2
  • Does anyone know what happened to his watch that says Sylar? I haven't seen it in a while. Dance4thedead 21:50, 5 February 2010 (EST)

Timeline in "The Wall"

If it had been 3 years in Sylar's mind when it had been 3 hours in real time, when they came out Peter said that it had been around half a day. so does that mean in their minds they were in there together for around 7-12 years? -- User:Devane183507.22am -GMT February 2010 (EST)

  • That seems to be the implication. Swm 06:46, 2 February 2010 (EST)
    • I like how having Peter barge in and try to free Sylar didn't dissuade Parkman from finishing his wall. He just sorta moves Peter away, and goes back to building a wall.--Gibbeynator 06:57, 2 February 2010 (EST)
      • I really wish we'd seen more of those years together. They were definitly in there for years, both Peter and Sylar said so.--WarGrowlmon18 08:00, 2 February 2010 (EST)
        • I agree. The forgiveness/redemption storylines that went on between the two was nearly the climax of both their character arcs, and I was disappointed that HRG's angst-ridden (and timeline confused) past was the focus rather than the stories of their main protagonist and their main antagonist. But I guess they're leaving the rest up to the fanfic writers... --Clairesxtwin48 17:03, 2 February 2010 (EST)
          • I agree, I wish that the Peter-Sylar story had lasted for the majority of two episodes--no more, no less. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 18:09, 2 February 2010 (EST)
            • Same problem they had back in Villains when Peter had The Hunger. They really should have let that storyline continue. They seem to be having an issue of speeding through important plot lines. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 18:12, 2 February 2010 (EST)

Claire

I'm not always paying alot of attention as I watch these days so it may have been explained, but why hadn't Claire's neck healed? --Obviouslyme 14:18, 2 February 2010 (EST)

  • I think it's healed, that's just dried blood she hasn't had a chance to wash off yet. --Stevehim 14:46, 2 February 2010 (EST)
    • Steve is correct. After she was shot she was locked in Samuel's trailer and probably hasn't been too worried about washing. There's absolutely no reason why it wouldn't, since she took the bullet out. Swm 18:03, 2 February 2010 (EST)
      • Looking at it now and it's grazed as well. edit: and clearly bruised --Obviouslyme 18:11, 2 February 2010 (EST)
        • I would blame bad make up for that one (much like when we couldn't tell whether Peter had regeneration or not in the Season 3 finale). There's no reason why she shouldn't be able to, and with nobody making reference to it in the episode, it's probably just an error. Swm 07:28, 3 February 2010 (EST)
          • I didn't see any grazing and I didn't see any bruising. I saw dried blood and dirt. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 08:04, 3 February 2010 (EST)

new actors and characters

          
          
          
          
          
          

-- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 00:36, 2 February 2010 (EST)

Empathy

Is anyone else hopeful that the "mind sharing" with Sylar could be the trigger for Peter getting his EM back? Many people think Peter's power was reduced to the weaker AR form because he lost his empathy, and connecting with Sylar emotionally certainly gave him a lot of extra strength since he was able to break through the wall - so if the "lost empathy" theory proves correct, this could be the moment!

If so, though, then I feel sorry for Eli. He's going to be vaporised!

Actually, regarding Eli, suppose Peter empathically mimics his power - I wonder if any clones he makes would then also have any other mimicked abilities the prime Peter has (e.g. those he'd have copied from Sylar right about now). Sir Link 15:58, 2 February 2010 (EST)

  • No, I'm not. Empathic mimicry is a heinously broken power and Peter should never, ever regain it. I actually doubt Eli will die here- we know Peter's not a killer and Sylar will hardly start off his redemption by splitting open another skull, right? Swm 16:34, 2 February 2010 (EST)
  • Interesting theory about the clones. Hm. I have no idea. But I agree, his experiences inside the Parkman whammy and his coming to terms with Sylar would be exactly the thing to restore Peter's powers to greater, if not equal to his former, levels. Though I agree with Sir Link that I don't really want him to be restored to his former godlike state. Not only would it make for bad storytelling, it would counteract all the growth emotionally and mentally that Peter underwent in Volume 4. Still, upgrading him to four or five powers at a time would definitely be a step up. --Clairesxtwin48 17:01, 2 February 2010 (EST)
    • I actually like Peter with his EM, and hope he gets it back. Without it, he's a much weaker (read: in terms of power) character, and really no match for Sylar at all (even if they're not going to fight anymore, which I hope remains the case...I'm just not sure what kind of villain they can really introduce to the show and have be a threat if Matt, Hiro, Peter, the Haitian and Sylar are all on the same side...maybe present vs future versions or something like that). --Stevehim 17:33, 2 February 2010 (EST)
      • I'm wondering much the same thing. Perhaps some kind of evil time traveller who has no qualms about messing with history? Makes for a good Hiro storyline, plenty of room for cameos of old characters, and such a person would be strong enough to hold their own against most of the people on the show. Swm 17:36, 2 February 2010 (EST)
        • Yep yep for EM, He should get it back, he should never have lost it in the first place. -- (WaterRatj) 17:51, 2 February 2010 (EST)

Why is everyone saying that you do realize that when Peter had it he rarely ever used it effectively or at all. season 1 he couldn't control it season 2 he lost his memory and season 3 he was in someone else's body for 3 episodes before he than spent an episode and a half asleep in a cell had a short fight and than had them taken. it seems like the writers were avoiding all opportunities for him to use his powers! If he does get his powers back it will make it more or less impossible or harder to write stories for him since if he meets ANY character he has their ability, the amount of people who will be say "thats stupid why didn't Peter do this in that situation" sorry as much as I did like the idea of his original ability even the writers admitted that if they could start again they'd have given him his current power. all in all ability replication is better in the long run. -- (devane1835) 12:54, 4 February 2010 (GMT)

  • Future Peter seemed to be able to use them effectively, but saddling Peter with an inability to use them right away is a nice counterbalance. When he meets a character, he would gain their ability, but not necessarily the know-how to use it immediately, and in any case, Sylar pretty much has his ability now (he doesn't automatically absorb it, but he doesn't need to do skull exams to get it anymore, and his IA boost allows him almost immediate mastery of it as a bonus). There are any number of ways to deal with the problem of "he should've done that then." In fact, that problem was almost always due to STM, and they already have to deal with that with Hiro. --Stevehim 09:54, 4 February 2010 (EST)
  • Come to think of it, Peter's best bet would be to absorb IA from Sylar, which would then allow him to gain more than one ability at a time. --Stevehim 10:10, 8 February 2010 (EST)
    • Apart from the whole going mad due to the hunger issue...Swm 16:53, 8 February 2010 (EST)
      • Well yeah, but that's a storyline they could expand more than they did last time, especially now that Sylar seems to be repenting and owes Peter. --Stevehim 20:38, 8 February 2010 (EST)

Eli

How do we know that Eli prime is at Matt's house at all? Do we know for certain the range that the clones can travel from the Prime? The way the end of the episode recap reads, it seems to declare that Eli Prime is the one on the stairs, and I'm not sure we know that for certain. --Stevehim 17:29, 2 February 2010 (EST)

  • We don't, you are correct. The clones can exist far away from the Prime, as was demonstrated in the latest GN's where Tracy is forced to fight them off in her makeshift school. And it would actually make a great deal of sense for Eli to deploy his clones and stay as far away from Sylar, reformed or not, as humanly possible. Swm 17:31, 2 February 2010 (EST)
    • It is the Prime though. The Graphic Novel:Reaching Out, Part 1 confirms that clones can't create clones; Tracy thanks Eli for sacrificing a clone for Ricky which would be pointless if they could clone themselves). And along with that, tow clones appear behind Sylar and Peter so that Eli must be the prime, or at least the prime nearby. --mc_hammark 17:46, 2 February 2010 (EST)
      • But surely that would mean Eli would have to have gone in person to the basement? Why would he do that, given that we now know from that same set of GN's that his clones can exist far away from the Prime? He could have just sent an army to Matt's house in that instance. Unless Samuel deliberately told him to go so he'd get himself killed? Swm 18:07, 2 February 2010 (EST)
        • Because Eli is an idiot. A big lunkhead idiot. I'll check the script--it usually denotes the prime from the clones. For instance, the Eli that found Noah and took him to the carnival is noted in the script to be the prime. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 18:13, 2 February 2010 (EST)
          • I think the one on the stairs was the Prime. Note how the clones suddenly just appeared around them. I think he cloned himself there, there's no way those clones were there before.--WarGrowlmon18 18:17, 2 February 2010 (EST)
            • Lol Eli is REALLY stupid! I mean he thinks that he is able to stop Sylar and Peter together lol.-- Yoshi | Talk | Contributions 04:33, 3 February 2010 (EST)
              • We don't know that the clones were formed behind Sylar and Peter, do we? Maybe they were hiding in the basement and just walked out behind them to flank them. Guess we'll see what the script says (or wait till next week), but it seems speculative that it's the Prime at this point (not that it's a major issue anyway). --Stevehim 10:39, 3 February 2010 (EST)
                • No, it is the prime. They weren't hiding, there is nowhere to hide. Plus there's only a second where they would be able to come out from their hiding place. And why would they hide in the basement until Peter and Sylar woke up? Why not just kill them while they were trapped? It is definitely the prime. --mc_hammark 10:56, 3 February 2010 (EST)
                  • I don't think we ever got a full view of the basement, did we? So there might be hiding places. As for why not kill them when asleep, that wouldn't work since Sylar was behind a brick wall (sure, they could've killed Peter, I guess, but it seems very likely that Samuel had instructions for Sylar as well as Peter). In the end, while it may be most likely the Prime on the stairs, it seems like it's still speculation to me, and we've hesitated posting things that seemed obvious when we didn't have definitive proof in the past. An interesting sidenote...how did Samuel even know where to find them? Lydia's dead... --Stevehim 12:07, 3 February 2010 (EST)
                    • He's living in a carnival full of specials... --mc_hammark 13:32, 3 February 2010 (EST)
                      • Oh, I know how they could explain it...I was just curious if they already had (I'm woefully behind on the GNs, iStory, Evolutions stuff), since he usually relied on Lydia for locating people. --Stevehim 13:35, 3 February 2010 (EST)

The End?

Okay, now I really think that I'm a bad person. Is there anybody else out there who's hoping that this will be the end of Noah Bennet? I mean, Claire can survive being burried alive. But I have a had time believing that Noah can. But then again, this show has shown on too many occations that he can survive almost anything, so why should this be any different? So I guess that, for now, I can only hope.--Tacroy 18:05, 2 February 2010 (EST)

  • You won't get any such sentiment out of me--Noah is quite possibly one of my favorite television characters ever created. But you are definitely not the only person who feels that way. I had at least two friends at work tell me they hope Noah dies, that it would be good for the storyline. I respectfully disagreed. :) -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 18:15, 2 February 2010 (EST)
    • I would love for Noah to continue as a character. One thing that is sorely missing from this entire volume is the creation of the new Company (you know, the one they got black-label government funding for?). I think he'd be better-applied to that sort of role now. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 18:18, 2 February 2010 (EST)
      • Definitely, I'd like to see him disappear for around the first 3 episodes next volume (X) then come back with a whole new company with agents to help look after the specials and protect them once they've been exposed. --mc_hammark 18:20, 2 February 2010 (EST)
        • I am in two minds. On the one hand, Claire's storyline desperately needs something to shake up her dynamic with Noah, and it would freshen up her character if he were to die and she become darker as a result. On the other hand, putting a bullet in Noah for Claire's sake would be incredibly callous, not least because Noah himself is probably a better character than Claire, and he deserves something of a happy ending after all the crap he's been through with the Company. Swm 18:21, 2 February 2010 (EST)
          • Lauren and Noah together (much like Arthur and Angela) to start up a new company. Perfect. --mc_hammark 18:26, 2 February 2010 (EST)
            • I realy think that Noah has done his in this show. Everything about him right now seems like a repeat of everything we allready know about him. And I could realy not care less about what happens to him. And I find that realy hard to say, cause in season one and (at the beginning of) season two I realy realy loved him. But if they decide to keep him (witch I hope not) I would love to see him get a storyline that doesn't involve "protecting Claire". I think that for the sake of the show the two of them should realy go their seperate ways and never meet again. Cause thier relation is just creeping me out.--Tacroy 18:51, 2 February 2010 (EST)
    • While I'm not convinced that Noah should be the one, it would be good for the show if one more major character (villains aside) died this season in order to quell the stereotype that nobody ever dies on Heroes.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 19:30, 2 February 2010 (EST)
    • maybe Hiro suddenly appears and saves the day --Themd 21:33, 2 February 2010 (EST)
  • I don't want it to be the end of Noah...actually, I would love to see Claude return and have a storyline with both of them, but I'm guessing that's unlikely. What I do think is coming is a major shift in the hero's world. If Samuel actually gets the Carnival to NY (which I think he will and will be the scene of the 'final battle,' I don't see how we're not looking at a world where everyone knows about the evolved humans. Aside from somehow massive cloning the Haitian or a deus ex machina, I don't see how they're going to make everyone forget that a Carnival with a bunch of super-powered people just shows up in the middle of Times Square and fights another group of supernaturals. I'm guessing we're transitioning toward one of the futures (or more likely a new future) we have been getting glimpses of since the show began. --Stevehim 10:48, 3 February 2010 (EST)

Sledgehammer

Sylar: Every time you pick up that sledgehammer, I feel like you’re going to hit me with it. Really hard.

Peter: Hm, that's funny, because every time I pick up this sledgehammer, I feel like I want to hit you with it. Really hard.

My mind went to all sorts of dirty places when this part came up. Are the writers seriously writing dialogue like this for my favorite anti-hero??? I mean come on... whoever came up with this either a) wanted every person with a dirty mind to snicker for hella days... or b) make every slash fan-girl suqee with delight.

Regardless, it's my new favorite quote! --Punxas 23:38, 2 February 2010 (EST)

  • Lol, I love this quote as well.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 23:44, 2 February 2010 (EST)
    • I didn't find anything dirty in it at all. Even now with you pointing it out, I can't imagine people seeing that. I do get a very dark vibe from it, though.--Riddler 00:07, 3 February 2010 (EST)
      • I shudder at the thought of fanfics that were spawned by this exchange of words. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 09:27, 3 February 2010 (EST)
      • I'm with Riddler, I didn't see anything dirty about it at all during the episode. Though now that you talk about it in that context, it does bring another quote to mind... "The hammer is my penis." - Captain Hammer (Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along Blog)

Claude

Three glasses?

Just wondering if anyone else noticed but there was an extra glass at Noah's and Thompson's table could it be Claude or someother invisible person.

  • Well, it's weird that there are three glasses but i dont think that Claude was there because Noah was talking about Claude.-- Yoshi | Talk | Contributions 04:31, 3 February 2010 (EST)
    • Personally, if there's an extra glass there, Claude was probably there, and personally, I'd think he'd be listening in, invisibly. --mc_hammark 06:29, 3 February 2010 (EST)
      • Good catch. I think that Claude was probably sitting in the chair listening in on his partner. Perhaps Noah was right about the trust issues... Swm 07:29, 3 February 2010 (EST)
        • If Claude was listening in and eavesdropping, why would he have a glass there? Wouldn't that give him away? -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 08:01, 3 February 2010 (EST)
          • Only if he actually tried drinking from it while the two of them were there, as floating it in midair would be a give away. It's possible Thompson was talking with Claude before Noah arrived (in order to get both their views on each other), and he turned invisible when Noah turned up. Swm 08:04, 3 February 2010 (EST)
            • Or maybe he was expecting Claude, talking with both, or only with Claude after talking to Noah. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 09:27, 3 February 2010 (EST)
              • Claude "went to the toilet", then "returned". --mc_hammark 09:44, 3 February 2010 (EST)
                  • I initially thought that too, but if you look closely, it's not really a glass for a third person. Noah appears to be drinking a beer, so it is probably just Noah's water glass. --Stevehim 10:41, 3 February 2010 (EST)
                    • If you look at the scene rather then that one picture, you'll see that there's 2 water glasses. Noah's beer and Thompson's whiskey. So in my opinion it's obviously their waterglasses. --Xanderish 21:41, 6 February 2010 (EST)
                      • Good point, but that might be for Thompson's partner... both Claude and that person being specials probably left to talk about something together, and they'd both be drinking water as we know alcohol affects abilities. --mc_hammark 09:12, 7 February 2010 (EST)
                          • I would imagine that alcohol does affect many (though not all...eg - Claire) abilities, though I do think the Sylar-Matt thing was more of a special case. Future Peter was drinking back in S1 and it didn't seem to affect him at all (though we don't know how much he had to drink). You raise a good point though...did Thompson have a partner? I'm not sure if he was still a field agent at that time... --Stevehim 09:54, 7 February 2010 (EST)

Hiro?

I was just thinking about Hiro's whereabouts. I mean, now that he is all cured and stuff, wouldn't his first move be to go back to the carnival and demand to know where Charlie is? Or are they pulling another Caitlin, out of sight out of mind? --Vanityvicious 09:41, 3 February 2010 (EST)

  • Well, I certainly wouldn't get brain surgery then expect to be discharged a few days later.--mc_hammark 09:52, 3 February 2010 (EST)
    • They can't focus on everyone at once. Hiro's brain sugery is a legitmate reason for him to be out of the picture for an episode or two. He'll be back for the finale. Swm 10:10, 3 February 2010 (EST)
      • Yup. He still needs to find Charlie. I never understood why he let Samuel blackmail him like that. Sure, he can't kill Samuel, but he could do exactly what Samuel did to Charlie...stick him in time somewhere until he cooperates. That's certainly more within the 'hero's code,' than working for the villain. --Stevehim 10:43, 3 February 2010 (EST)
      • Stevehim has a good point. But I'm guessing there's going to be a reunion with Charlie in the finale. But it's true- brain surgery is definitely going to take him out of action for several days. As a brain surgery patient, let me tell you this: it takes a LONG time for your head to stop hurting! --Clairesxtwin48 18:24, 4 February 2010 (EST)
        • So we agreed that he had surgery and was not healed by Ishi? Well then of course it's only logical for him to get some rest before saving anyone ;) --Vanityvicious 08:13, 5 February 2010 (EST)
          • Unless anyone seriously wishes to argue that Ishi's spirit came back from the dead, fully equipped with her powers, and magicked away his tumour, then yes :D. It seems fairly obvious to me that the healing in his mind was just a symbolic representation of the surgery. Swm 08:46, 5 February 2010 (EST)
            • That's the way I choose to see it, too. But because it's one of those very weird, supernatural, "can it happen or not" things, we need to just put what we see. "In a dream, Ishi healed Hiro." Or something to that effect. It's important that, unless we get confirmation otherwise, we don't put that it was a symbolic healing, or that it wasn't real, or even that it was real. We just put what we saw. :) -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 10:50, 5 February 2010 (EST)
              • Haha, isn't everything on Heroes kinda supernatural? ;) I don't believe it was Ishi either, I honestly just forgot that he probably needs some time to recover..--Vanityvicious 14:07, 5 February 2010 (EST)
                • Sudden thought. What if she (older now) is in the same hospital? --Ricard Desi (t,c) 16:18, 5 February 2010 (EST)
                  • Heck, with all the changes to the past, do we even know for sure she's still dead (note: not in terms of page editing, just in general)? --Stevehim 19:00, 5 February 2010 (EST)
                  • I don't think we can say for sure. Guess we'll have to wait and see how his conversation with Ando post-surgery goes. --Clairesxtwin48 23:58, 5 February 2010 (EST)
                    • So you think Ishi is still alive? how would that work? I mean, Hiro was there when she died! --Vanityvicious 15:24, 6 February 2010 (EST)
                      • I was referring to Charlie, not Ishi. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 17:05, 6 February 2010 (EST)
                      • I don't actually think she's still alive...I was just saying she could be. Since the past has been changed so much, anything is once again possible. Afaik, we don't know where and when Arnold put Charlie (I haven't read that set of GNs, so don't know if they stated it there), so for all we know that action could have changed Ishi's fate. Like I said, I don't believe this to be the case, but it could be without contradicting what we've seen so far. Of course, the same thing could apply to anything and anyone else (eg - Arthur, Adam, Maury, etc)...Hiro's ability makes for a sort of deus ex machina anytime the writer's want to retcon something. --Stevehim 20:17, 6 February 2010 (EST)
                        • Well, as far as we know, Charlie isn't dead, just stuck in time. And as far as Ishi's fate is concerned.. she died because she was sick, not because she was killed or something, how would Hiro's abilty change anything? And if she were, wouldn't Hiro know that?--Vanityvicious 20:37, 6 February 2010 (EST)
                          • We don't know anything about Charlie at all. Hiro might not know, they call that a paradox. And as of S3, Hiro hasn't gone that far back in time to possibly affect Ishi; the only thing he's done to possibly affect it is saving charlie then, theoretically if Arnold took charlie back in time far enough, this could have had an impact on any events since that point in time, basically they could retcon anything. --mc_hammark 20:47, 6 February 2010 (EST)
                              • Re: Vanityvicious... Hiro's ability should be able to change anything in the course of history in theory. I merely meant that there was a time alteration (Arnold taking Charlie back somewhere, as mc hammark stated) that we don't know anything about, so it could have changed anything, if the writer's desire to use it to. Charlie being alive or dead, or how Ishi died wouldn't matter.
                              • Re: MC hammark...I still maintain that there is no reason to assume that a change cannot affect events prior to it.  :) --Stevehim 09:51, 7 February 2010 (EST)

Clothes

In the nightmare, Peter and Sylar weared the same clothes for 6 years lol, and for Sylar it's even worse because he weared it for 9 years. Pretty grose.-- Yoshi | Talk | Contributions 08:27, 11 February 2010 (EST)

  • No women, no television, and no clean underwear. A nightmare indeed! -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 12:08, 11 February 2010 (EST)
    • Lol, Well Sylar had a lot of watches atleast.-- Yoshi | Talk | Contributions 12:09, 11 February 2010 (EST)
      • Is it forgotten by the producers or was it just a part of the nightmare?-- Yoshi | Talk | Contributions 12:54, 11 February 2010 (EST)
        • Maybe they had a Simpsons thing going on where they owned forty pairs of the same outfit.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 15:09, 11 February 2010 (EST)
  • When Peter said "No need to eat, no need to sleep" (or something along those lines), I think he meant it. In that nightmare, they didn't exist physically, so they didn't have physical needs; guess their clothes didn't wear out, either.
    But here's an interesting thought. Provided they had tried and had found a clothing store, would they have found clothes there to take? And if so, only once (because there was no-one to resupply the store once they had taken everything) or more than once (because that was also generated by their minds)?--DrIstvaan 15:18, 11 February 2010 (EST)