Talk:Space-time manipulation/Archive 1

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Examples Limit

The Examples section is way too long. Heroe 14:43, 3 January 2007 (EST)

  • We've already discussed the possibility of limiting the number of examples in Powers pages, as they would grow out of control over the course of a 5-year plotline. Identify which examples you think are best, and how many you think should be the max for one Powers page. --Ted C 14:46, 3 January 2007 (EST)
  • I agree it's at its max, but not that it's too long. I think if we add any more examples, we'll have to take some out (perhaps some of the less dynamic examples, like teleporting into the ladies room). Let's discuss possibilities before deleting examples, though.

    Just another suggestion - perhaps, for the completionist in me, we could have just a few illustrative examples on each individual power page, and then a link to another full and complete list, perhaps something called "List of Space-time manipulation examples"? Thoughts? - RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 15:26, 3 January 2007 (EST)

    • See here for further discussion.

Manipulation is misnomer

"Exactly how this ability works is unclear." Using the phrase "stopping time" is actually a misnomer. We can only venture into speculation this early in the series, but we can't jump to the conclusion that he can affect time or space in any manner. In fact, time is but a measurement, from the limited perception of we linear temporal beings. Time doesn't really exist any more than a 'meter' or a 'fathom' exists. Comparing the time he stopped time in front of Micah & DL to the time he failed to stop time to get the sword and slowed it instead, I believe it safe for us to presume that Hiro is not stopping and starting time. He is only realigning his place in time, much like moving a needle on the grooves of a record. To be honest, if he literally stopped all time in the universe, that would include gravity, causing him to hurl out into space like an ant being thrown off a spinning orange. Since gravity is not affected, and he can breathe normally, and other laws of physics seem to affect him like the size and weight of surrounding objects, he's not altering reality in any manner, just his relation to it. In fact, it's really the only rational explanation based on what we've thus far observed. He doesn't stop time. He speeds up or slows down, puts himself in reverse, or fast forwards himself through reality, outside temporal constraints. In fact, I would go so far as to say whatever Hiro does has nothing in common with people whose genetics have been affected. Hiro's ability is not merely a genetic mutation. It's something beyond mere humanoid biology. -- ZachsMind 15:56, 3 February 2007 (EST)

  • I don't think it is necessary to try to describe any of the abilities on Heroes in a way that agrees with real life science. We can take for granted that none of them will stand up to that scrutiny. I don't agree with everything you say about time on a philosophical level. But it really isn't necessary to even get into that debate here, because when Hiro describes his own power he says that he can bend time and space. So I think "space-time manipulation" is about as good as we can get for now.--E rowe 16:06, 3 February 2007 (EST)

Character section

If you are not going to allow the Peter comment on this section, then also a change in the Episode description should also be amended as it says "but Peter manages to stop time right before the probes reach him and causes them to drop to the ground". Now, do consider that when he used TK the background sound was entirely different as when he "allegedly" stopped time. When he "allegedly" did so, the sound and animation effect used were more consistent with Hiro's abilities. (which happened to have a "trademark" sound/effect) --Cjfer

  • I didn't know it was there. I'll fix. --Ted C 11:12, 20 February 2007 (EST)
    • Please double check Episode's discussion tab. Admin made the same argument I am making. --Cjfer 12:36, 20 February 2007 (EST)
      • Already working on it. --Ted C 12:39, 20 February 2007 (EST)

Comparisons between Hiro, Sylar and Peter when faced with a shooting object shows that Peter stopping the taser probe at the rooftop has more to do with telekinesis den time-stopping. If he just stops the time around the probe, the probe will still go through when time resumes so a better choice with time-manipulation is to reverse the time around the projectile so it returns to the chamber(like when hiro did it)... Sylar stopped Mohinder's bullet with TK and it fell on the ground after spinning and hanging in midair.. from this we can get the conclusion that Peter is using TK and not time-manipulation..--Zenithdoom 03:08, 11 March 2007 (EDT)

  • You can't conclude that. Both powers have been used to stop bullets already. Sylar used it to stop a bullet that Mohinder fired, Hiro used it to stop a bullet that Hope fired. The difference is that when Peter stopped the probes you heard the classic sound of time slowing down plus the clicking of the taser slows and stops. Once the probes fall the sound resumes. Telekinesis would not have caused the clicking noise to slow down, stop, then restart anyway. I'm not saying he didn't use telekinesis to throw the darts to the ground, it seems reasonable that he may have. I'm just saying the darts initially stopped due to him slowing/stopping time. (Admin 03:16, 11 March 2007 (EDT))
    • You may not be able to conclude that it must be telekinesis, but there's also no proof that it was time manipulation. Points: 1. if Peter could manipulate space time, why would he fly away not teleport, which would be much safer? 2. How could he possibly use Hiro's power more easily than Hiro himself on Peter's first and ONLY use of it? 3. Most importantly, he automatically reacted as was necessary in the situation to save his life, right? now if he could stop time for that, how is it that he couldn't reverse time a bit to save Simone? The woman he loves dies, and he doesn't use one of his powers that he ABSOLUTELY has, to fix it??? in fact if memory serves says he CAN'T fix it, which surely after seeing Hiro come back from the future, he must know that time can go backwards. That makes absolutely no sense... Now the sound effect is a nice point, but not a do all and end all of this argument, they use the sounds because they sound cool, and they've done that before and since, such as when Peter's voice sounds much the same as Eve's did when he's yelling at Isaac, he wasn't using Eve's power, they just wanted it to sound cool! I accept that there is a possibility that it was Time manipulation, however it doesn't make much sense at all, and so should be listed as a possible usage, not a definite one, because that just doesn't stack up.(Koruzarius 00:02, 13 March 2007 (EDT))
      • My input on this is that you hear Peter breathing even when the darts are stopped. Second, when they drop, you see the surprised look on Bennet's face as in "What the hell just happened?" versus an immediate reaction if stopped solely with telekinesis, wherein they could just shoot him again or chase after him then. Also, Claude's moving in the background, as is Peter. My vote is that it's space-time. I originally thought he dropped the darts with telekinesis after he stopped time, and I still stay with that observation (since the darts on their timeline were never on the floor, Hiro's reversal trick doesn't apply, but stopping certainly does). --Baldbobbo 01:17, 13 March 2007 (EDT)
        • Look how slow Claude is moving when Peter stops time. He doesn't look like anyone writing with voltage moving or just recently moving through is body. I however don't think that Peter stopped it completely. It seems he used chronokinesis and then telekinesis, since he doesn't have a grasp on his powers. His CK was like Hiro's when he made time go really, really slow. Also, why would Peter unconsciously absorb EVERYONE ELSE'S power, but not Future Hiro's? It's time control.OUChevelleSS 19:36, 17 May 2007 (EDT)

Montecito / Corinthian

I got the impression they're two different casinos. I mean, they'd be hard pressed to say that the scenes from Collision & Run! took place in the Corinthian, since everything has "Montecito" plastered all over it. Also, the sets are completely different. It's also worth noting that the Corinthian website calls it Linderman's newest casino.--Hardvice (talk) 16:02, 6 March 2007 (EST)

"How it's done" section?

  • Do we think we should have a section which explains how the time-freezing scenes are actually accomplished (green screen + actors miming)? --   Lost Soul   talk  contribs  08:40, 19 August 2007 (EDT)
    • You mean for the visual effects? I think we could have a note about it, and then a link to Inside Heroes or Heroes Unmasked, since that's the source of the information. Those articles are better suited for explaining away the intricacies of the VFX, and this article, if anything, should only briefly summarize the process. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 08:47, 19 August 2007 (EDT)

Intense concentration?

The page mentions at the start of the limits section for Hiro that "All of Hiro's space-time manipulation abilities require intense concentration." I think this is obsolete; in recent episodes, Hiro seems to have a much better handle on his power, using it with apparently little effort. This is also somewhat noted later in the limits section: "Upon obtaining the sword of Takezo Kensei, he was immediately able to teleport himself and Ando through both time and space with relative ease." However, after that, there's no mention of his using the power with less effort, even though it does mention him using it without the sword. My point is, should we amend the article, to mention Hiro's apparent mastery over his power? We would still keep the "intense concentration" note at the top, but make it more past-tense, as in "When he first manifested his power, and for some time afterward, Hiro needed intense concentration to use his power.", with a mention of Hiro using it with more ease later on? Perhaps mention how his power seems to have developed a fair bit with practice, for example: he mentioned in his blog at one point (Mudslide, to be precise) that he couldn't hold on to the time-freeze for more than twenty seconds, then in a later episode, he froze time for long enough to either fold 1000 origami cranes for Charlie, or to transport them all from somewhere else, if he'd already folded them. I'd be happy to make these changes myself, I'd just like to have a green light first. --Anomaly 06:07, 18 October 2007 (EDT)

  • While Hiro's power use is much more reliable than it used to be, I'm still noticing that he usually closes his eyes and furrows his brow when he activates it. I can moderate the statement some, though. --Ted C 09:51, 18 October 2007 (EDT)

Opium

"Hiro's ability has been subdued by giving off fumes of opium, thus disabling him from stopping time or teleporting." I'm not sure this is accurate. Did the opium subdue his powers, or just make him too zonked out to summon up enough concentration or willpower to use them?N W 11:59, 6 November 2007 (EST)

  • It had to do with breaking his concentration, not disabling his powers. Hiro was still able to teleport after inhaling all that opium fume. Yaeko also told him that he needed to concentrate.--Ice Vision 16:37, 17 November 2007 (EST)

I

Other Teleporters

We have a couple of other people who "teleport" listed in the notes. I put them back there after someone moved them under the Characters heading. It is our policy that we don't list someone as a "Character" with the power until they demonstrate it in an episode or GN, correct? Also, we don't know if their teleportation abilities work on the same principles. --Ted C 13:11, 21 May 2008 (EDT)

Confirmed/Unconfirmed

SAC, Like they subHeadings. Putting the unconfirmed at the top just keeps them from getting buried and lost at the bottom of ever-growing pages, and makes it quick and easy for anyone coming to a power page to see who "all" of the people who may have the power are.--HiroDynoSlayer (talk) 05/24/2008 09:31 (EST)

Teleportation page

Just wondering because it seems as if we are going to have more teleporters now should we create a separate page for Teleportation instead of redirecting it. They are actually two separate abilities that Hiro and Peter just so happen to possess in a different way. Just a thought. Shoyru1177

  • I don't think so. There are a ton of pages that link to teleport, teleportation, teleports, and teleporting, and it would be silly to go back and change all those links just because we have some people we are told can teleport. If those others demonstrated their ability, there might be a weak argument for a subpage or something, but even then, teleportation is teleportation. I'd rather just create a separate section on the page for teleportation if it ever becomes something that we see as a unique power. But until then, the page is fine as it is, if you ask me. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 12:20, 11 June 2008 (EDT)
  • I also agree as well with the fact teleportation and Hiro's ability shouldn't be merge. To assume that someone who can teleport can travel through time would be speculative. It would also be speculative to assume that they bend space and time to teleport. All we know is that they get from point A to point B in a split second. Nothing more nothing less. Well except for the fact that when a teleporter dies their body fades in and out (Into the Wild part 3).--OutbackZack 13:54, 9 December 2008 (EST)OutbackZack
    • To further make my point we can look at other well establish comic book characters that teleport. Nightcrawer is a well known teleporter who doesn't bend space and time, but instead crosses in and out of another dimension in a blink of an eye. Now I'm NOT saying that we have come across a teleporter from Heroes like this, but instead saying we are unaware how Manuel Garcia does teleport. To assume that he bends space and time is too speculative. So thus we must make a separate page for this ability and link Hiro to that page as it being a byproduct of his main ability. --OutbackZack 17:56, 10 December 2008 (EST)OutbackZack
    • I agree that there should be a separate page for teleportation. There are 2 known teleporters now while only one STM user. Also, (as a side note) someone with telepathy (Matt) is able to cast illusions but someone who can cast illusions (Candice) can't read minds. Aren't the two principles the same? --Elemental Manipulator [ U | T | C ] - When in doubt, ask BTE 02:57, 16 December 2008 (EST)

Future Hiro's Limits

I rewatched Season 1 again just recently and I didn't notice any instance where Future Hiro included anyone else in his powers without physical contact. The only time that I can think the article could be referencing is when he teleported back in time to tell Peter about Claire but we don't know if it was Future Hiro's doing or Peter duplicating Hiro's power like the time in Primatech Paper. What are everyone's thoughts?--Iceman 14:43, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

  • As far as I know, we've yet to see any version of Hiro or Peter move someone else through time or space without touching them. --Ted C 11:44, 29 September 2008 (EDT)
  • It is also implied that they do need to make contact, as we see Peter TK Matt into range to touch him before sending him to Africa. Stevehim 08:55, 30 September 2008 (EDT)

Full Time Stopping?

Now that Daphne has been introduced, and she can still move about when Hiro "stops time"...
Does this mean that he doesn't fully stop time, but just slows it way down to "appears to be stopping time"? Does full time stopping exist in the show's mythology?
If so, was it written so that he did fully stop time before, but they've since retconned it so that he never did? Was this done in order to either fit Daphne in and/or alleviate any "science problems" with full time stopping?
Or does it mean that he never did fully stop time, but just slowed it way down to "appears to be stopping time"?
What do you all think? -- Prander 11:13, 29 September 2008 (EDT)

  • Seeing how Hiro's power had her initially at a full stop in "The Second Coming", I'm wondering if its not more a matter of Hiro's concentration slipping, like it did when he went after Sylar in "The Hard Part". --Ted C 11:43, 29 September 2008 (EDT)
    • Wish i knew this question on Friday, would of asked Masi.--Skywalkerrbf 11:47, 29 September 2008 (EDT)
    • I was thinking about this also, and I agree with Ted. The trail from Daphne was there and steady, but when Hiro came close to Daphne, that's when the trail quickly disappeared, and Daphne stood still for a second before she started talking. I think it's more along the lines of her still moving very fast, but Hiro hasn't stopped time completely. She's in his head.--Bob (talk) 16:45, 29 September 2008 (EDT)
      • It could also be that she needed to increase her speed to account for the time change, and it took her a bit to 'catch up.' It's probably best to leave things as they are until this is cleared up, since it's such a massive change (will need to be made on a bunch of different pages) Stevehim 08:57, 30 September 2008 (EDT)
        • Personally, I put it down to Hiro's concentration slipping, as Daphne was completely frozen initially, and as he starts staring at her, time starts to flow. Daphne even mentioned that time can't be completely stopped or "we're not having this conversation". The remaining encounters can also be explained by Hiro being agitated, and a lot of Daphne's comments and her attitude really seem to annoy Hiro. Photolysis 09:09, 30 September 2008 (EDT)
          • The way I see it, Hiro initially stopped time completely. But when he caught up to Daphne, he sped it up just enough so that she could move around in normal (but not super) speed, so he could talk to her (Does this mean that she also has the power of speed-talking?). This would also explain why the speed trail suddenly caught up with her.--PrometheusMMIV 10:32, 9 November 2008 (EST)
  • While I also asked the other questions I posed here (including the 'concentration' one you guys brought up), I had the main question answered in the newest BTE interview...

"Now that Daphne has been introduced, and she can still move about when Hiro 'stops time,' she states that he must not be fully stopping time. Does this mean that he doesn't fully stop time, but just slows it way down to 'appears to be stopping time?'"

Yes. Exactly. Whatever a nano of a nano second is, that's where they live.
-- Prander 14:15, 7 October 2008 (EDT)

  • In any event, I don't think this really changes anything significant. It's still called "stopping time" even if the truth is (or is not) that time is moving extremely slowly. Maybe some times he's stopped time completely, some times it's been infinitesimally slow (where he can interact with Daphne), other times it's been noticeably slow (when he slowed down time in the museum), and another time he seemed to actually reverse time (sending the bullet from Hope's gun back into the chamber). (Admin 14:24, 7 October 2008 (EDT))
    • I agree that it doesn't really change anything. Though, it's "technically" not 'stopping time,' it still basically is. It's also been, as you pointed out, clearly presented differently than what we've seen presented as 'slowing time'. I would've like to have had my "did he always 'slow time way down' or was it changed (retconned) from 'stopping time'" question answered. Oh, well. -- Prander 16:13, 7 October 2008 (EDT)

Use

In Angels and Monsters, did Hiro stop time several times and physically moved Adam back to the coffin while time was frozen or did he actively teleported him into the coffin? I ask this cause it wasn't very clear, both situations seem possible, specially after we saw future Peter teleport Matt away without teleporting himself. He did need to touch him, but the fact the ability was used in a different way implies that other ways might also be possible. Hiro has rewinded time in a specific location before, maybe he learned to do the same thing with the space aspect of the ability? Penny for your thoughts. Intuitive Empath 16:48, 18 October 2008 (EDT)

  • I think he slowed time and put him back, as he didn't seem to touch Adam (and I don't know if Hiro even has that level of control yet). I don't recall if we saw Ando moving during any of that, but since we weren't shown the interim, I don't think that would necessarily matter. Stevehim 16:51, 18 October 2008 (EDT)

different name

i think we should change the name here is the reason why http://theories.activatingevolution.org/swiki/wiki/index.php/List_of_Anomalistic_Abilities though i'm not certain of the canon status of the site, waiting for your opinion people --Manwithnoname 18:26, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

  1. The name right now is of the highest canon ranking. Nothing else matters.
  2. That site is garbage.
Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ U | T | C ] 18:54, 30 October 2008 (EDT)
To put it more politely, activatingevolution.org is a wiki with fan-submitted material. That right there disqualifies any name given (even clairalience, necrokinesis, and emokinesis). The site has no administrators, and therefore is subject to vandalism, theories posted as fact, and lots of silliness submitted by fans. So thought there might be some good names on the list you posted, they are certainly not from canon sources, and they definitely don't fit the naming convention. Sorry! :) -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 20:04, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

oh man... i'm the one who was sorry, i didn't know it, it seemed just so true thank you guys anyway, and yeah the site is indeed garbage --Manwithnoname 07:22, 1 November 2008 (EDT)

New Development

A new development has gone unnoticed. In 'The Second Coming' Future Peter clearly teleports Matt to Africa Without going there himself. This hasn't been shown before by Either Hiro or Peter. I just think this should be mentioned in the limits. --User:LEE337 20:12 21st November 2008

That's mentioned under Future Peter. Intuitive Empath 15:55, 21 November 2008 (EST)
some of us think that this was actually Object displacement, but that's not a popular line of thought so says the talk page --SacValleyDweller (talk) 00:57, 22 November 2008 (EST)

Peter

it is my belief that peter used telekinesis and not space-time manipulation in unexpected, because when he stopped the probes from the taser, it was the same sound effect used as when other characters have used telekinesis, and it was most definitely not the sound effect used when either peter or hiro used space-time manipulation. Peter1701 01:55, 29 November 2008 (EST)

  • You're half right. He definitely did use telekinesis to drop the tasers, and the sound effects back that up. However, before he used telekinesis, he slowed time using space-time manipulation. The sound effects and the visual effects back this up. See here and here for previous discussions on the subject. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 02:13, 29 November 2008 (EST)
    • I agree with the first person that it seemed more likely to be telekinesis. That's what it looked like to me. If he was using Hiro's power, why didn't he just teleport himself and Claude away???--WarGrowlmon18 12:41, 11 December 2008 (EST)
      • He had never used teleportation at that point, and it was clearly more of a reflex than a conscious move. --Ricard Desi 13:07, 11 December 2008 (EST)

Divide

  • Shouldn't we divide Teleportation from Space-Time Manipulation?--NiveKJ13 (talk2me) 11:04, 16 December 2008 (EST)
    • I agree with this notion as well. However, it seems that it keeps being overlooked--OutbackZack 15:52, 16 December 2008 (EST)
      • There, I nominated the article for a split. Please refer to the above "Teleportation page" section for my reasoning.--OutbackZack 04:46, 17 December 2008 (EST)
        • I agree as well. Space-time manipulation can cover the aspects of moving through, slowing, reversing, and stopping time, whereas teleportation can cover just that. Hiro can be listed as having a byproduct.--Riddler 15:09, 17 December 2008 (EST)
          • I agree that this article should be split up. And it's not unusual if that would mean Hiro would possess two powers. We've seen it with Santiago who also has two abilities. I guess some abilities come with some extra's that are part of it, moving through time is a form of teleportation as well. DarthYotho 16:30, 17 December 2008 (EST)
            • Quite honestly, I see no reason to have to list it as a byproduct. If we did that, we would have to rename Hiro's power to Time manipulation, and that would go against canon. Psilaq Remake 20:49, 17 December 2008 (EST)
              • I agree it shouldn't be listed as a byproduct, but I still believe that the page needs to be split.--OutbackZack 20:53, 17 December 2008 (EST)
                • Agree. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 21:53, 17 December 2008 (EST)
                  • If we don't classify it as a byproduct, we can't go around calling anything else byproducts, since it's the same exact thing. I had a suggestion for how byproducts should be handled at User talk:Riddler/Ability byproducts, but this is relying on us keeping the whole byproduct thing at all. I still think it's silly, but if we're to have it we need a standard.--Riddler 01:36, 18 December 2008 (EST)
                    • There's nothing to suggest that Hiro has Rachel Mills's ability as a byproduct of his own. Hiro has one ability that lets him do at least three distinct things--stop time, teleport, and time travel. I agree with you to an extent, Riddler, that we can't go around calling other things byproducts. The exception, of course, is super speed being a byproduct of accelerated probability, since that was confirmed by writers in a BTE. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 07:33, 18 December 2008 (EST)
  • I'm still new to this whole process. How long does a nomination last for? So far it seem pretty clear cut that we agree on splitting the article between the two abilities and not noting that Hiro has a byproduct seeing how it wasn't listed in any cannon sources. --OutbackZack 22:24, 17 December 2008 (EST)
    • If by splitting the pages you mean creating one for teleportation but keeping teleportation (and Hiro, Peter, and Arthur) on this page as well, as an aspect of STM, I'm all for it. It would be similar to telepathy and illusion being two different pages, in that telepaths can also create illusions, but illusionists do not have the ability to read/control people's minds. --Stevehim 23:31, 17 December 2008 (EST)
      • Yes that's exactly what I mean. It will be nice once there is a split, because Manuel Garcia has the ability, but never been seen using it. However, his lifeless body was fading in and out, and I would love to note that.--OutbackZack 23:41, 17 December 2008 (EST)
        • Hey Stevehim, did you realize I made that same point about about telepathy and illusion in the 'teleportation page' thread above 2 days ago?--Elemental Manipulator [ U | T | C ] - When in doubt, ask BTE 04:24, 18 December 2008 (EST)
          • I did not, but good point.  ;) --Stevehim 05:39, 18 December 2008 (EST)

I just split off and created Teleportation as it's own page; and removed the stand-alone references from this topic. Check it out. --HiroDynoSlayer (talk) 12/18/2008 10:57 (EST)

  • Does anyone know if there is a page that is a list of Redirects? I want to go through and make sure all of the references we have for teleport are going to the correct page between the two. --HiroDynoSlayer (talk) 12/18/2008 11:01 (EST)

Anyone Left?

Following Dual, are there any characters left who actually have this ability? At least the full version? Arthur took it away from Peter and Hiro, then died himself. Assuming, for the moment, that Peter has to start absorbing powers all over again, then he is currently limited to empathy, flight, and pyrokinesis. That leaves only Daphne able to travel through time, and only if Ando helps her. I'm wondering if we'll see less time-travel paradox stuff happening in volume four... maybe even hoping that we can go a season without an "end of the world vision of the future" to foil. --Ted C 12:42, 16 December 2008 (EST)

  • I think the writters said they were gonna stop using the time travel to the future stuff as a crutch meaning for the next volume at least, we probably won't see that. Good thing too: its getting old. Oh and I hope Peter regained all of his abilities when he injected himself with the formula.--WarGrowlmon18 13:07, 16 December 2008 (EST)
    • Am I the only one who would be glad if Peter's abilities got "wiped" and he has to absorb them all over again? It'd make things way better than having a win-all, unbeatable, absolutely god-mod character running around with his emotions absolutely out of control. ~~Darmenos 18:36, 16 December 2008 (EDT)
    • I'd rather see time travel back in time than to the future. That can be accomplished just as easily with time travel as it can with flashbacks (Six Months Ago) or "spirit walks" (Villains). (Though I'd still like to see what that 1977 episode is all about!) -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 13:21, 16 December 2008 (EST)
      • By the way, to answer the "anyone left?" question: possibly Rachel Mills.--Tim Thomason 20:04, 16 December 2008 (EST)
      • Peter got his abilities back...And he demonstrated Flight right away, so this means he still have the abilities he mimicked. --NiveKJ13 (talk2me) 11:44, 18 December 2008 (EST)
        • While likely, it's possible he lost his previously mimicked abilities, and since he got that one back, he remimicked Nathan. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 12:02, 18 December 2008 (EST)
  • We still have Daphne/Ando, too. --Ricard Desi 17:37, 20 December 2008 (EST)

Why is Daphne added?

Daphne super charged ability may let her perform some things similar to space-time manipulation, but I don't think she should be mentioned in this article. When she traveled back in time she was using super charged super speed, which is not space time manipulation at all. I think we could mention it on the super speed page and just make a small heading listing super charged forms of this ability, this would provide enough detail.--Dave

  • One of the three aspects of space-time manipulation is time travel, which is exactly what Daphne did when supercharged. She even (inexplicably) moved FORWARD in time at will. --Ricard Desi 17:37, 20 December 2008 (EST)
    • Ando, Kaito, Claire, and Caitlin have all traveled in time, too. Adam, Matt, and others have been teleported. That doesn't mean any of them have this ability. This page is not a list of examples of when people have traveled through time, but an article about Hiro's power (which was absorbed by Peter and Arthur) called "space-time manipulation". Daphne does not have this power. She should not be mentioned on here at all. About the most that should happen is something in the See Also section. I'll remove Daphne from the page now. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 21:10, 20 December 2008 (EST)
      • Ando, Kaito, and Claire have all traveled as a result of Hiro bringing them around, likewise with Adam, Caitlin, and Matt by Peter. Daphne and Ando, by combining their powers, traveled through time without using the ability of any pre-established time-traveling character. --Ricard Desi 11:55, 21 December 2008 (EST)
        • That still doesn't mean that Daphne has this ability. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 15:43, 21 December 2008 (EST)
          • You're right, she doesn't. However, her ability once "supercharge" allows for her to. So how about we place the time travel on her page and just have it link to the "Time traveling" page, or whatever it's call.--OutbackZack 15:58, 21 December 2008 (EST)
            • Time travel redirects to this page, which wouldn't be right. She doesn't time travel the same way Hiro does. Space-time manipulation allows Hiro to to instantaneously jump to a different time period. Daphne needs another person, and it takes some time for her to get there--in fact she has to travel at the speed of light. Hiro doesn't, as far as we know. Her page could link to time travel (theory) or time travel (disambig), I guess. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 16:33, 21 December 2008 (EST)
              • Then I say just list it in the limits and have it link to the disambig.--OutbackZack 20:09, 21 December 2008 (EST)

Split?

Hiro's new ability only allows him to stop time, as confirmed by Aron Coliete and Joe Pokaski in Behind the Eclipse week 19. Should this be separate ability from Space-Time Manipulation? Maybe just 'time-freezing' or something? If there's a new one for Peter, I think that there should be a new one for Hiro as well. --Laudo

There's a very good argument against it, by Ryan at Talk:Time manipulation. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 19:56, 31 March 2009 (EDT)