Episode talk:Brother's Keeper

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Best episode in a long time

y/n? -Sincerely, Thrashmeister » talk- 22:29, 16 November 2009 (EST)

  • N, best episode since two episodes ago, thus not a long time. I did love the Tracy/Claire dynamic, it was nice to see Hayden and Ali getting some screen-time together. --PeterDawson 22:33, 16 November 2009 (EST)
    • You mean Once Upon a Time in Texas? Eh, forgive me, that episode wasn't that great. Good, but not spectacular. The whole Noah affair storyline ruined that for me, it was just so irrelevant. Plus, loving Charlie again just kind of came out of nowhere, what happened to Yaeko? Brother's Keeper was really the only episode that stood out for me since probably... The Second Coming. Or maybe something somewhere in season three, most likely from Volume Four. -Sincerely, Thrashmeister » talk- 22:40, 16 November 2009 (EST)
      • Came out of nowhere? Its been on his mind all the time. He couldn't save her, plus he loved her. Yeah he loved Yaeko, but that could be justified as being part-fantasy due to his love for the Kensei legend. Plus Hiro making a deal with the devil I always thought was ballsy for the character, a real sign of his growth. --PeterDawson 02:22, 17 November 2009 (EST)
  • I dug it. I loved how we got to see another, twisted side of Samuel. I also loved how Hiro's finally thinking with his head again, which is awesome. Hopefully we'll finally get to see end-of-season-one Hiro again, instead of childish, forgetful Hiro that we unfortunately get most of the time. Also, the whole Peter/Nathan/Matt/Sylar thing was the shiz. Lastly, finally someone shoots a clump of rocks like a shotgun blast -- for some reason I've always wanted someone with terrakinesis or telekinesis to do this. XD --Whizzles 22:45, 16 November 2009 (EST)
    • It's hard to say which episode is better than another during this season. Each episode really rocks as of late. I'm very impressed! -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 22:54, 16 November 2009 (EST)
      • Heh heh, rocks... --Action Figure 07:12, 17 November 2009 (EST)
      • Like Ryan, I'm very impressed with the season as a whole so far. This and Once Upon A Time In Texas are the highlights, though. I have no doubt Lauren will appear again later on, and so that subplot with her and Noah won't be pointless after all. Swm 08:11, 17 November 2009 (EST)
    • Yeah, i thought this episodes was really great. Once Upon A Time in Texas was better. But this definately comes second place. With a 3rd place for Shadowboxing. -- Futurepeter ( U - T - C) 14:53, 17 November 2009 (EST)
      • I just watched it. Definitely wonderful episode :) --Janrodrigo 09:42, 18 November 2009 (EST)
      • Loved Knepper's acting. "A way for me to increase my power, a thousandfold! Haha TELL ME!!!!!!!" --Cosmic AC 16:35, 24 November 2009 (EST)

Lead image

I'd like to see the image of Peter and Nathan taking off from the Grand Canyon as the lead image for this episode. I just really liked that Peter was determined to follow Nathan, no matter what. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 22:55, 16 November 2009 (EST)

  • I like this, but I fear that it may be tough to get a clear screencap of what they're doing exactly. If Peter and Nathan taking off doesn't work out, I think a shot of Samuel and Joseph together (just outside the trailer?) might do as well. --Whizzles 22:58, 16 November 2009 (EST)
    • I tried to get a screencap, but nathan flies out of the shot before peter takes off, so no go Fourletterfame 23:57, 16 November 2009 (EST)
    • A shot of Samuel and Joseph together would be nice too. Or Nathan finding his own body. --PeterDawson 02:24, 17 November 2009 (EST)
      • I like the one we have. It'd be cool to have it show the Grand Canyon a bit more, that way it's easier to place when and where the scene happens. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 12:52, 17 November 2009 (EST)
        • I'll do my best to get the best shot. -- Futurepeter ( U - T - C) 14:54, 17 November 2009 (EST)
          • How about this one
            Brother's Keeper 1.jpg
            There aren't much shots to go with, so this is all i can do for now. -- Futurepeter ( U - T - C) 15:09, 17 November 2009 (EST)
            • That picture that was put up was really out of focus, IMO. It's like the shot where Nathan is right about to become a total flying blur. It's also not a very sharp capture. NileQT87 00:07, 20 November 2009 (EST)

Elizabeth = Different actress?

So they recast Dawn-Lyen Gardner in the role of Elizabeth previously played by Cloie Wyatt Taylor? Or does Nathan just have a thing for hiring aides named Elizabeth who look very similar?--CourtesyofTVRage.com 00:05, 17 November 2009 (EST)

  • That would make it the first time they ever actually recasted someone instead of just writing them off. I prefer characters to be written off rather than recasted though... --Cairoi 00:43, 17 November 2009 (EST)
    • I don't think so, didn't a number of eagle eye watchers say that it wasn't Quin OR Reed Baron playing Matt Jr.? Or do babies not count because they're constantly being recast when they get too old for the role?--Gibbeynator 09:15, 17 November 2009 (EST)
      • I think Heroes just re-cast roles that they think people can't remember. --JLYK
  • In any case, does the Elizabeth page need to have both actresses listed? Right now the link on this page goes to a different/new Elizabeth page.--CourtesyofTVRage.com 10:57, 17 November 2009 (EST)
    • I think it's the same character, which raises the question on which actress image to put in the character page. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 12:14, 17 November 2009 (EST)
      • Actually, I know what the issue is--they're two different characters. I'll explain more when I have more time... -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 12:53, 17 November 2009 (EST)
        • It looks like it's already been taken care of (thanks, Radicell!)...When Angela mentioned that Nathan's aide's name was Elizabeth, the natural assumption that Nathan's aide's name was Elizabeth. :) -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 21:03, 17 November 2009 (EST)
          • No probs. :) --Radicell 02:52, 18 November 2009 (EST)

Tracy brake in vs. Sylar break in.

The part where Tracy broke into HRG's house and Claire searched the apartment while caring a knife felt like a reference to the the part in season three where Sylar broke into the Bennet house and Claire also walked around with a knife. Anyone else agree? Trivia worthy or not?--Cairoi 00:34, 17 November 2009 (EST)

  • That's kind of a stretch, considering the scenes are still radically different. Definitely not trivia worthy. -Sincerely, Thrashmeister » talk- 00:43, 17 November 2009 (EST)
    • Alright, makes seance. I like to look too deeply into things sometimes.- -Yippee ki ya 14:41, 17 November 2009 (EST)

World splitting in half painting

Who else thinks the painting in season three where the would was split in two may in fact be because of Samuel? Also, unrelated, was the identity of who painted all of those murals ever reveled?--Cairoi 00:36, 17 November 2009 (EST)

  • I think the writers said someone with terrakinesis broke the earth.Gamerelite1 06:27, 17 November 2009 (EST)
  • Don't forget Hiro's trip to the future in The Second Coming, where he watched Tokyo get torn apart. Revengeance 09:07, 17 November 2009 (EST)

Samuel's ability?

So what are we all thinking about Samuel's ability being amplified by other specials?

  • But it's not only samuel. Everyone at the carnival is being amplified. It's a whole carnival of incredibly strong people. Oh noes.Gamerelite1 06:28, 17 November 2009 (EST)
    • If it weren't for the fact that Suresh and Joseph seem pretty sure that terrakinesis is the only ability that gets this boost, I'd agree.--Gibbeynator 08:24, 17 November 2009 (EST)
      • Well chandra stated that the force amplifies whenever specials are around. I assume anyone could take advantage of it.

Sylar

Ok, so now there is one Sylar (matt's sylar is gone). In that body, there is Sylar and Nathan. Much simpler? --JLYK

  • Wasn't Sylar transferred into Peter during their Grand Canyon vacation? Revengeance 09:10, 17 November 2009 (EST)
    • im pretty sure that it was him replicating nathans flight, but then again they did take away the glow for that ability, or so it seems, so it could be that sylar is in peter now, which if i do say so myself would be an epic twist
      • I don't know, Sylar would likely want all the abilities that "Nathan" has rather than the 1 that Peter has. And if it was Sylar, he'd have immediately taken intuitive aptitude from "Nathan" once he realized he had no powers. DigitalCount 10:44, 17 November 2009 (EST)
        • Peter replicated his flight ability again. You can clearly see him doing it.--WarGrowlmon18 13:08, 17 November 2009 (EST)
          • We saw Peter fly away, that's just a fact. But i wonder, doesn't he own Sylar's own ability, intuitive aptitude now?? Would be real nice. And another fact that just occured to me, why did the hunger for power vanished? -- Futurepeter ( U - T - C) 14:49, 17 November 2009 (EST)
            • Why would he have intuitive aptitude, it makes no sense for him to have it. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 15:14, 17 November 2009 (EST)
              • Correct me if I'm wrong, but there's been no confirmation one way or the other if Peter takes one, some, or all powers when taking them from a person with multiple abilities. We've only seen him use one at a time, the two times he's replicated from Sylar, sure. But that's no proof. --EkimCF 16:21, 17 November 2009 (EST)
                • Ok, you are wrong. They've said he can only take one. One from Sylar and one from Future versions of himself. --Action Figure 04:29, 18 November 2009 (EST)
                  • Actually, I believe there was a Behind the Eclipse in which the writers said that Peter could possibly absorb more than one power eventually...or at least that the power had the capability of evolving to such a state. I don't have the link right now, nor the time to search for it. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 11:09, 18 November 2009 (EST)
                    • But if he just absorbs intuitive aptitude he doesn't ever have to absorb another ability again using his current ability. He can now use intuitive aptitude to get other powers. So i guess when he meets another empath, he will get his natural ability again. But i have no proof of this. -- Futurepeter ( U - T - C) 11:30, 18 November 2009 (EST)
                      • "Correct me if I'm wrong" An Invisible Thread Peter takes Sylars shapeshifting ability and says "Bet you dind't think I took that one". So yes he can only take one of his abilities, and yes you're is wrong. However the whole thing is flawed (big gasp, heroes writers after all) as Sylars ability is intuitive aptitude and that's the only one in his DNA; so if Peter tries to take a power from Sylar that's the only one he should get. -- user:ObviouslyMe
                        • First season HRG tells Sylar that all the powers he's absorbing are messing with his DNA. --Action Figure 22:50, 18 November 2009 (EST)

Tracy and Claire.

I had to say, that when they were together I laughed very hard. I mean, when Tracy was dragging Claire's frozen body, was just hilarious and then her foot snapped off. But, i didn't understand how the ice melted so quickly.. Can you help? --Scorvi12 02:09, 17 November 2009 (EST)

  • I guess the hole from the loss of a foot caused warmth to quickly flow in or something. That or it caused her to heat up as she healed. it reminded me a bit of Zathura. --PeterDawson 02:26, 17 November 2009 (EST)
  • Yeah, I laughed. But I laughed even harder at Noah's reaction to Claire's spare foot. Revengeance 09:12, 17 November 2009 (EST)
    • Yeah, the extra foot on the table, and Noah's line were highlights of the episode! -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 21:05, 17 November 2009 (EST)

Nikki's cell?

Is Mohinder's padded cell at the same place that Nikki went to in season one? If not I think the overhead shot of Mohinder in the cell was a nod to that same shot of Nikki in the cell. Maybe that's trivia worthy?--Cairoi 02:10, 17 November 2009 (EST)

  • Given that that was in Florida I seriously doubt that.--WarGrowlmon18 02:31, 17 November 2009 (EST)
    • I thought so too, until the screentext said "Florida". And then I checked that Niki was held in the Women's Correctional Faciliy in Las Vegas, NV. --Radicell 04:30, 17 November 2009 (EST)
      • But a question about mohinder in the cell. If he's in there, where's the crazy guy? --mc_hammark 12:43, 17 November 2009 (EST)
        • Nowhere? Hiro could have easily forged some papers to get Suresh locked up. None of the doctors seemed to notice that this person was different from whoever may have been in there before.--Gibbeynator 19:45, 17 November 2009 (EST)

Actors/characters

          
          
          
          

--Radicell 03:53, 17 November 2009 (EST)

The Force

Should there be an article on the force that specials give off? --Action Figure 07:31, 17 November 2009 (EST)

  • I don't think it should be its own, separate article. Make it a footnote of an existing article. Of course, we don't know if anyone can use this force, or just people with terrakinesis.--Gibbeynator 08:46, 17 November 2009 (EST)

Which person on the writing staff is the anime geek?

Am I the only person who thought "Dragon Ball" when Claire regenerated from being a solid block of ice? It reminds me of, near the end of the series, when Piccolo was turned into a statue, broken, and then regenerated from being broken.--Gibbeynator 09:32, 17 November 2009 (EST)

Well not exactly, I didn't instantly think of the Piccolo scene when I saw that. But I was wondering if like Piccolo, Claire can regenerate even with just a head. A toe and a foot seem pretty easy but nearly a full body?--Dman dustin 09:52, 17 November 2009 (EST)
http://heroeswiki.com/Graphic_Novel:Resistance I think she can regenerate from a really bad injury.--Gibbeynator 10:01, 17 November 2009 (EST)

Abilities become unstable after near-death experiences?

First Claire, then Elle, now Tracy. Are there any others who had similar situations? I know it's related to mental state, but it just seems odd that all three experienced similarly huge power snafus in similar circumstances, and this is worse than the initial "just starting to understand my power" fluctuations that we've seen. DigitalCount 10:44, 17 November 2009 (EST)

  • Nathan was okay after Peter's explosion, so is Matt after being shot twice... Maybe this applies only to women? Green.gif AltesUTC CH
    • Sylar encounters near-death/death like twice or more every season. He seems to get stronger everytime? --JLYK
    • Only applies to women? Super-PMS? --EkimCF 16:14, 17 November 2009 (EST)
      • Ted couldn't control his power when he was shot. Hiro hasn't been able to control his power since he developed a tumor...or when he thought that it was controlled by the Kensei sword. Aviv has been having a difficult time controlling his ability, especially when he's not happy. After Peter was pushed off the roof of a building, he went into power overload. Jeremy had serious problems with his power before he died. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 21:15, 17 November 2009 (EST)
        • Blonde women, remember, it's mental =D --Jas3point14 21:43, 17 November 2009 (EST)
        • With Elle and Tracy especially, their powers started backfiring; they seemed to lose some ability immunity. I'm just wondering if there are any other people whose powers started functioning in a fundamentally different manner after a near-death experience. Something like Matt becoming precognitive would be an example, but he didn't have a near-death experience unless you consider the hyena dung mix deadly, which I do. ;) DigitalCount 23:56, 17 November 2009 (EST)

Heroes desperate for ratings?

Look at the way Claire dresses. And Tracy going into the bathtub. Woah. =o --JLYK

  • Lol you're right.--Yoshi n1 15:10, 17 November 2009 (EST)
    • Desperate ratings stunt...or generous fan service. :) -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 21:16, 17 November 2009 (EST)

I think the show is weird this season...it contains some of the best episodes ever in the show, and some that are a bit boring!I love this show, and the changes they made this year. Still, I'm afraid the show is not going to last long with these ratings!--Bittersweet1911 05:36, 18 November 2009 (EST)

      • Or the way a college aged girl and a woman getting in a bathtub with a stranger in the room would dress? --Action Figure 22:53, 18 November 2009 (EST)

No Molly

Was I the only one who was hoping that we would see or at least hear a line about Molly while Mohinder was in India?--Cairoi 11:08, 17 November 2009 (EST)

  • Molly is with Claude as of Rebellion. NileQT87 11:46, 17 November 2009 (EST)
    • Watch your edits Bittersweet1911, you erased this section. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 10:05, 18 November 2009 (EST)
      • You would still think there would be some mention of her; for anyone who doesn't read the graphic novels, she was last in India. Man, I wish the writers would put a LITTLE bit of effort into bringing her back, its ridiculous that Matt and Mohinder just forgot about her. --Skullman1392 00:46, 1 December 2009 (EST)

Telepathy

Does the passing of Sylar's mind into "Nathan's" count as telepathy, and did anyone else see the red effect of the transferance. If this is an example of telepathy, does this count as a visual effect of it? --mc_hammark 14:35, 17 November 2009 (EST)

  • I personally don't understand why contact was required. And why only such a brief contact sufficed. It didn't seem to require contact when Matt put Nathan in Sylar in the first place (although there may have been some), and it seemed quite an ordeal. Then again, this was a live consciousness putting itself back into its body. Was a little disappointed that Matt didn't exercise more control, but I guess Sylar was pretty focused on getting what he wanted. --EkimCF 16:23, 17 November 2009 (EST)
    • I think that this was clairsentience, if it only took an instant to transfer his consciousness... Though there's still the question of just how Sylar's consciousness actually existed within Matt, sort of like the catalyst... Mike 21:10, 17 November 2009 (EST)
      • Actually matt made a lot of contact with sylar when erasing his mind.Gamerelite1 21:48, 17 November 2009 (EST)

Peter/Nathan Reaction

It seemed like Peter and "Nathan" took the Nathan is Sylar news better than expected. Of course Nathan was more upset than Peter as anyone would be, but they didn't really get angry enough to speed off to Angela or Bennet. You'd think after Peter's latest meets with Noah, he storm off over there yelling something like "All this time and you didn't bother telling me!" This was a good episode, but that seemed to let me down a bit.--Catalyst · Talk · HL 17:16, 17 November 2009 (EST)

  • I agree, it was an odd reaction, but I think he was too "mad" to do anything about it. Or it would've awkward to see Peter suddenly crying over Nathan's body. I'm sure Peter will though, I think he just needs to process it first. --Dman dustin 18:12, 17 November 2009 (EST)
    • Well what would they get mad at? Sure it's crazy, but nathan isn't "dead" yet. He's still living on through sylar.Gamerelite1 21:49, 17 November 2009 (EST)
      • You wouldn't get mad if your body died and thoughts were implanted in a super powered serial killer?--Catalyst · Talk · HL 21:57, 17 November 2009 (EST)
        • I was actually referring to Peter, since in this case he would've been fooled, and he's probably getting sick of it. "Nathan" on the other hand is probably just shocked. Granted if I saw my dead body, I'd scream like a little girl (albeit purposely) but "Nathan" has a different personality, and while Nathan screaming like a little girl would be absolutely hilarious it would be out of character. So he was probably too confused/shocked to really have a reaction. I'm actually not sure what "Nathan" should do in this case; except freak out but that's not Nathan. --Dman dustin 22:26, 17 November 2009 (EST)
          • It's pretty clear that Peter doesn't believe what's going on. Peter seems to be in denial. I'm sure that once it sinks in that Nathan's really dead, he's going to do as you guys believe. But right now Peter can't let himself slip, he has to be strong for "Nathan," hence the mentions of all the things Nathan's done for him.DigitalCount 22:23, 18 November 2009 (EST)

Peters power affected by "the Force"?

The compass points towards Samuel as it is searching for the force which he gives off, because his is amplified. However in the double episode at the start of the season we saw the compass pointing toward Peter when he held it. Is it possible he is affected by this force as well?--Fr0z3nB0nes 03:25, 18 November 2009 (EST)

  • While I'm pretty sure that the force emanates from all specials, and that samuel is just particularly tuned into it because of its gravity/ magnetism like nature and his earth ability, I suppose its possible that Peter would be affected by it too becuase of his ability. But its just as likely that it pointed toward Peter because samuel or the carnival was in a direction relatively "behind" Peter. --Action Figure 04:40, 18 November 2009 (EST)
    • It would be really nice :) I always digged Peter's natural ability of empathic mimicry. I always thought it was a bit sad, that he wasn't the strongest of them all anymore. But if Peter's ability can be boosted it would be really nice. -- Futurepeter ( U - T - C) 11:26, 18 November 2009 (EST)

The Haitian

How Bad @$$ is he? I love the part where he tells Nylar not to come any closer. --Action Figure 04:41, 18 November 2009 (EST)

  • You mean Sythan, don't you? --mc_hammark 15:39, 18 November 2009 (EST)
    • No. I beleive that as we called the Matt, Sylar combo SyMatt is should be Nylar. The prefix should relate to the persona in the mind and the suffix should relate the whose body it is. I.E. Nylar. --Obviouslyme 21:29, 18 November 2009 (EST)
      • I don't believe we called Matt and Sylar anything. And I prefer Sythan myself. Not to mention we do have a page for it.--Catalyst · Talk · HL 22:21, 18 November 2009 (EST)
        • I call them Sylatt =) Green.gif AltesUTC CH
          • Wouldnt Mylar be funnier? --Action Figure 05:02, 19 November 2009 (EST)
        • I have three reasons for calling him Nylar:

1. Its the first thing out of my mouth when Sylar was mind-wiped last season.

2. Nylar is better because he is actually Sylar with the face of Nathan. So the capital letter, or "face" of the term, is Nathan while the majority is the true person.

3. Sythan sounds like a pokemon and is stupid.

So... nyah... :P --Action Figure 22:58, 18 November 2009 (EST)

  • The Haitian has long been one of my favorite characters. He has never been swayed by others. He just quietly does what he's supposed to do, and always remains true to himself. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 23:01, 18 November 2009 (EST)
    • I definitely agree with you on this and feel the same way about him. --Janrodrigo 18:51, 21 November 2009 (EST)
      • Yup, he is awesome. :D --Radicell 21:35, 21 November 2009 (EST)

Exposed Future Gabriel and Peter

So it transpired that Gabriel and Peter aren't brothers. I find it difficult to believe that they would not have figured it out by the time of the exposed future shown in Volume 3, it was a pretty thinly spread lie. So perhaps their brotherhood in this future stems from Nathlar/Sylan. There is clearly still a lot of Nathan in that head, especially in terms of looking out for Peter. Over time perhaps the combination of Sylar, who always has this undercurrent of Gabriel, and Nathan will live as a brother to Peter, with Nathan's compassion facilitating their overcoming of the Hunger. Or something like that. Sheesh, this sure is a psychological minefield. :S --EkimCF 15:01, 19 November 2009 (EST)

  • I'm glad someone else has considered this route. It occurred to me pretty recently that a similar future to the exposed future (minus Noah Gray due to the hiccup of Sylar going nuts for another year and a half after the future changed initially) could in fact happen. Add up that in the very same exposed future, someone causes devastating damage to Tokyo, and we find that the exposed future might not be gone just yet. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 16:47, 19 November 2009 (EST)
    • Indeed. I'm fairly confident that the apocalypse in the exposed future was due to nigh-on everyone getting abilities, therefore powering Samuel up to unimaginable proportions just by being in any populous area. The world splitting has been averted now, by the destruction of the formula, except perhaps if Samuel can get all those who already have powers around him. I've just spotted a flaw in my own reasoning, however, regarding Gabriel... Nathan was still alive at that time. So I guess in the original exposed timeline, they really did still believe they were brothers. --EkimCF 17:13, 19 November 2009 (EST)
      • The future seen in Season Three has changed, just as the futures seen in Seasons One and Two have changed. The Nathan that Peter saw in the "exposed future" really was Nathan, not the Sylar-Nathan hybrid. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 23:07, 19 November 2009 (EST)

Prison break

Just noticed an episode was called this in prison break I know nothing related to Heroes, just mentioning :p -- (WaterRatj) 17:19, 29 November 2009 (EST)