Episode talk:The Kindness of Strangers

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checklist for Kindred

Checklist for The Kindness of Strangers

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Synopsis

I can do the synopsis again if no one wants to. My roommate is out of town, so I won't have anyone arguing about rewinding.--Bob 18:09, 15 October 2007 (EDT)

  • That's cool with me. I avoid the synopsis like the plague. (I'll help with cleanup if you want.) -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 18:30, 15 October 2007 (EDT)
  • Sounds good! I usually like to keep an eye on the wiki after the show airs anyway since there are a ton of edits that need patrolling and I enjoy watching the traffic spike. :) (Admin 19:28, 15 October 2007 (EDT))
    • As always, I'll do the easier stuff to keep it out of your way. XD--Riddler 21:53, 15 October 2007 (EDT)
      • Y'all can clean up for a while, I need to eat and study a bit.--Bob (Talk) 22:23, 15 October 2007 (EDT)

Lead Image

I suggest something involving Sylar, maybe in the backseat with Maya and Activating Evolution.--Riddler 22:16, 15 October 2007 (EDT)

  • How about the three travelers turning over Sylar on the road? --Fcphantom 22:26, 15 October 2007 (EDT)
    • I suggested mine 'cause the situation involves the "kindness" part. =P --Riddler 22:35, 15 October 2007 (EDT)
    • Fcphantom, I was thinking the same thing as you. That's close to the one I uploaded, actually. If there's a better one then it can always be changed, but this scene is what immediately came to mind when I thought about the episode name. (Admin 22:43, 15 October 2007 (EDT))
      • Meh, I just thought it'd be nicer to have some faces shown.--Riddler 22:47, 15 October 2007 (EDT)
        • It very well might. If you can grab a good screencap we can take a look at it. Otherwise maybe someone else will upload a picture that might convey the episode better than the current one and it'll get changed. (Admin 22:48, 15 October 2007 (EDT))
          • Unfortunately until it's on NBC I can't get any screen captures, and the NBC quality usually isn't the best. If you want me to be more specific, I'd say Sylar with Maya and the book, with that huge smile on Maya's face. (She's cute, by the way. =P)--Riddler 22:50, 15 October 2007 (EDT)
    • I love the image we have right now. It's a nice overhead shot, and it reminds me very much of the parable of the Good Samaritan. Rather ironic. It gets my vote. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 00:11, 16 October 2007 (EDT)
      • IMO, it makes it look like they hit him with the car.--Riddler 00:13, 16 October 2007 (EDT)

Did I break the page or was it someone else?

The navigation bar is out of whack. --Riddler 22:36, 15 October 2007 (EDT)

  • Whoever deleted the appearances didn't close the div.--Bob (Talk) 22:40, 15 October 2007 (EDT)

Nathan calls Kaito "Hiro?"

  • I was looking at the scene with the photo of the group of twelve again and when Nathan's listing the people in the picture it sounds like he points to Kaito and says "Hiro Nakamura." Anyone want to confirm that I'm hearing it accurately? (Admin 00:32, 16 October 2007 (EDT))
    • It's a bit garbled, but it does sound closer to Hiro than Kaito. --Fcphantom 00:35, 16 October 2007 (EDT)
      • I heard it loud and clear, Nathan definately said "Hiro" Nakamaura. I'm guessing that Nathan was thinking of Hiro when he saw Kaito in the picture, not knowing that Kaito was Hiro's dad. It could also have been a script error, I'm not sure.--MiamiVolts (talk) 01:07, 16 October 2007 (EDT)
        • Well Matt says it later on when talking to Mohinder so it's probably not a script error.--The hoodie (talk) 01:08, 16 October 2007 (EDT)
          • But Matt could just be restating that Hiro is dead cause of the fight with Sylar in the Season One finale. I'm not sure Matt is listing Hiro as a member of the Group of twelve.--MiamiVolts (talk) 01:13, 16 October 2007 (EDT)
            • Why would he just randomly interrupt himself to point out that Hiro is dead, and then go on talking about the Group of Twelve again? It just doesn't make any sense! The hoodie 01:16, 16 October 2007 (EDT)
              • I'm not sure, but I guess it is possible both Hiro and Kaito were members of the Group of twelve... we're going to have to take a good look at that photo...--MiamiVolts (talk) 01:21, 16 October 2007 (EDT)
                • Did anyone get a screencap of it? --The hoodie 01:25, 16 October 2007 (EDT)
                  • See Image:Group of twelve.jpg for the best one thus far. It would definately be interesting to find out that Hiro was the 12th member...On a side note, this was a good episode but I missed Hiro's and Ando's comedic adventures tonight.--MiamiVolts (talk) 03:05, 16 October 2007 (EDT)
          • Matt says "Kay-to", not Hiro. Nathan also says Kato twice, though the second time (when they're looking at the picture) he kinda mumbles it under his breath.--Bob (Talk) 03:12, 16 October 2007 (EDT)
            • It sounded much more like "Kay-to" to me than "Hiro". It was somewhat garbled, but I don't think there's any hidden message to it, or even a mistake. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 06:25, 16 October 2007 (EDT)
              • Nathan definately said Hiro Nakamura. I played through it several times to make sure. But the closed captioning that Windows Media Center's recording said Kaito. --Snow Leapord 07:12, 16 October 2007 (EDT)
                • I think he says Kaito. Firstly, how would a mistake like that slip through the production. Second I think Nathan puts more emphasis on the "h" sound made when "k" and "ai" are together, rather than just the "k" sound. Then after the "ai" there is an "r" sound which is then followed by more of a "d" than a "t", and then finally the "o". In summary kHaIRdO. Takes a while to sound it out but try it. --SomeoneImportant 20:42, 17 October 2007 (EDT)
                  • I heard Nathan say "Kaito Nakamura."--Ice Vision 22:17, 17 October 2007 (EDT)
                    • Me, too. He does pronounce it "Kie-to" instead of "Kay-to", and he does slur it a bit, but I definitely hear "Kaito".--Hardvice (talk) 23:34, 17 October 2007 (EDT)
                      • It definatly sound like Hiro to me even when i replayed the sound back several times! I am convinced

"Scary guy"

  • Is that how he was credited? Please say no.--Hardvice (talk) 00:39, 16 October 2007 (EDT)
    • Yup. That's why I put it in quotes (something I'll continue to do when I'm around to collect the credits). --Fcphantom 01:14, 16 October 2007 (EDT)
      • Where exactly is Scary Guy in the show? --The hoodie 01:36, 16 October 2007 (EDT)
        • He's the robber that Monica takes care of. --Fcphantom 01:38, 16 October 2007 (EDT)
        • By the way, I think we should name him "Burger Burgler" instead of scary guy. --Fcphantom 02:08, 16 October 2007 (EDT)
          • I suppose "Hamburglar" is out of the question?--Hardvice (talk) 03:40, 16 October 2007 (EDT)
            • Heh. It would be fitting with the actor's name. :) I'm fine with changing it to something more specific. "Burger Bonanza robber" sounds fine to me. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 06:26, 16 October 2007 (EDT)
              • Whatever we decide to call him, we need to watch our redlinks. Currently, we have 9 links to "Scary guy" and 4 links to "New Orleans robber"--Hardvice (talk) 16:11, 16 October 2007 (EDT)
                • I'm hesitant to use "New Orleans robber" because there will likely be more than one. Casting calls have already been put out for thieves and robbers preying on the wreckage of Katrina. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 01:45, 17 October 2007 (EDT)
                  • Good point. I've changed all the links to "Burger Bonanza robber". I suppose if Burger Bonanza gets robbed again, we can always use (I) and (II).--Hardvice (talk) 01:56, 17 October 2007 (EDT)

Symbol in Molly's eyes

Did anyone else spot the Symbol in Molly's eyes after she saw the picture of Mr. Parkman? If so, this probably warrants a mention. - Chardish 01:51, 16 October 2007 (EDT)

  • Yep, I saw it, too. It'll be mentioned on The Symbol article as soon as we have a screenshot of it. (Admin 01:57, 16 October 2007 (EDT))


Screencaps

  • The first round of caps are up. Please check for dupes before uploading.--Hardvice (talk) 03:37, 16 October 2007 (EDT)

Noah/Claire

(Let me know if there might be a more appropriate, season-spanning place to discuss this ...)

Credit goes to my wife for spotting one of the things I don't care for in the Season Two storyline so far: Noah and Claire are making the same mistakes as in Season One. Noah knows things, specifically from a painting, that risks a family member and Claire willfully thwarts her father's strictures to do her own thing to be her own person. I understood why Noah didn't show Claire the paintings of her dying at Homecoming, but the family is in on the secret now. That he would hide a painting of his death from his family who are all in the know seems contrived to advance the plot. It is like the writers have gotten too attached to the dynamic between the characters established in Season One and don't see another way to move the plot forward and keep the tension. More things that irk me about Season Two so far. -- FissionChips 11:42, 16 October 2007 (EDT)


Matt Parkman - first use of telepathic projection?

In the hospital with Angela, Matt appears to be able to 'talk' telepathically, projecting his own thoughts to Angela, who responds. Is this the first time Matt does this? The other theory though, is that Angela is also able to read thoughts, and both used one-way communication, knowing the the other would respond. DismantleRepair 16:03, 16 October 2007 (EDT)

  • Probably Angela knows he's in her head. Like when she screamed "Get out of my head!"
    • I doubt that there was any "telepathic talking" between Matt and Angela. I don't recall Matt "talking" to Angela either. Angela is familiar with powers; she automatically knew that Matt heard her thoughts when Matt brought up that "someone wanted revenge". I'm sure any other person who notice when Matt uses his telepathy. He tilts his head and concentrates, looks at the person strangely, or something similar. Angela knew when to think the thoughts she wanted Matt to hear.--Ice Vision 22:14, 17 October 2007 (EDT)
        • Here's a transcription of the scene:
Angela (thinking): Write down the statement and let it go, Parkman.  Please let it go.
Matt (speaking--his lips are moving): Uh, Mrs. Petrelli, why are you doing this?
Angela (speaking): My head is clear now.  I understand. The only way out is for me to confess.
Det. Fuller (speaking): Fine.  I'll start the paperwork.
Angela (thinking): If they keep digging, they will find out about all of us and what we can do.  Let it go.  Let it go.
At no point does anyone but Angela have a non-spoken line.--Hardvice (talk) 23:42, 17 October 2007 (EDT)
  • The way I see it, it was definitely a private (telepathic) exchange between the two of them. Crucially, the way the scene is shot changes - from closeups to extreme closeups, and with a blur across areas of the frame - indicating a shift into the 'realm' of the telepathic. This is broken for a moment when we see Fuller saying he'll do the paperwork, but then it goes straight back into it. If this was normal, spoken dialogue between Matt and Angela, it would have been shot in the same manner as everything before, and I doubt Fuller would be able to ignore the line "The only way out of this is for me to confess", since it may imply that the confession is made under coercion. Since the scene is from Matt's point of view, it is impossible to show him projecting his thoughts without moving his lips, because it would look like he's just thinking to himself. I know it's impossible to be sure of it at the moment, but when Matt does it again in future episodes, and it looks just like this scene, you can thank me for spotting it first :) DismantleRepair 02:40, 18 October 2007 (EDT)
    • Matt's and Angela's lips move exactly in sync with what they're saying. Their words don't have a telepathic echo at all, and there's no "background" talking sound like there was the last time Angela sent a thought at Matt while she was still talking.--Hardvice (talk) 03:15, 18 October 2007 (EDT)
  • The sharp, stinging noises associated with telepathy are heard as Nathan 'says' "Mrs. Petrelli, why are you doing this?". Jump cuts and erratic speed changes associated with telepathy are also used. When Angela replies "The only way out of this is for me to confess", an echo effect is used in her voice. Lack of background noise and voices is explained by the shift to telepathic communication--instead of people's thoughts interfering with Matt's day-to-day life, he is now 'in the zone' and totally focused on communicating telepathically. As I said before, they appear to be talking to each other because this is the only way to represent two-way telepathic communication without it being confusing to a viewer, but due to the change in the way the scene is shot, viewers understand that they are communicating telepathically. --DismantleRepair 04:23, 18 October 2007 (EDT)
    • Having their voices sound like normal speech and their lips move as they speak is supposed to be a less confusing way to show that they're communicating telepathically? Wouldn't the easier assumption when they appear to be speaking and their lips are moving and sound is coming out of their mouths be that ... they're speaking? They've never shown anyone speaking their thoughts. And Detective Fuller's line, "Fine, I'll start the paperwork" is said as a response to Angela's spoken out loud line "My head is clear now. I understand. The only way out is for me to confess", which may seem like an admission that she's lying to Matt, but to Fuller just sounds like she's coming clean. Having now watched it about six times, I just don't see any possibility that any of Matt's lines are unspoken, nor that Angela's middle line is unspoken. Not that it matters in the long run, but it just seems like a perfectly normal Matt Parkman telepathy experience to me, albeit with a bit of extended "telepathic static".--Hardvice (talk) 04:44, 18 October 2007 (EDT)
  • Hmm... I'm coming round a bit, but I think it could go both ways. On one hand, the spoken dialogue contrasts well with the much more secretive thoughts that Angela has. But if those two lines are just spoken, it doesn't make sense to still use signifiers that we associate with telepathy, as well as such dramatic closeups, if there isn't more in it. Ha!... my last film essay for uni was about fan audiences... I never thought I'd be analysing a scene from a TV show as much as I am now :P --DismantleRepair 05:35, 18 October 2007 (EDT)
    • That's one of the things I love about this Wiki. Without it, I'd watch Heroes and enjoy it, but with the wiki I obsess completely. Once you catch yourself in the middle of a six-page debate about what to call the power of a character who appeared in three panels of a graphic novel, you're pretty much done for.  :) --Hardvice (talk) 06:03, 18 October 2007 (EDT)

Timeline

I know, I know, the timeline is still not set in stone, but I'm going to add this note anyway. On the front of Burger Bonanza, it says that it closes at 10pm (which is what Monica and the robber talk about) for Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday. In Kindred, Peter and the Irish people were talking about the football - a match (in real life) which took place on March 7 - which is a Wednesday. Since, logically, this episode takes place the day after Kindred, that would place this episode on Thursday, March 8, 2007, connecting into the closing times of the Burger Bonanza.

Also, Sylar said he has been walking for three days. This could, theoretically, place his storyline in Kindred during the events of Four Months Later, although he could have been lying.

Thoughts? It's probably all too theoretical anyway. --DocM 18:47, 16 October 2007 (EDT)

  • I'm a bit wary of jumping to March 7--real life events don't always match up with Heroes events. That said, it might be a good question for Joe Pokaski and Aron Coleite. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 01:37, 17 October 2007 (EDT)
  • There was no World Wrestling Event that included Rey Mysterio on March 8 2007, as least as far as I can find. --Unfalln 01:16, 18 October 2007 (EDT)

Red Link for Wrestler?

Does he really need to be credited or have a page? They used a real life clip, he had no lines - it was just a TV show. I'd say just mentioning him should suffice and rid all these red links.--Riddler 21:36, 16 October 2007 (EDT)

  • There's not really a good reason not to, though. Especially since we know who he is and what his move is called.--Hardvice (talk) 23:17, 16 October 2007 (EDT)
    • Every page (to my knowledge) is a character who actually has an actor on the show, or someone who has a part in the story line. Rey Mysterio was on TV... he's not a member of the Heroes cast. If Monica decides to start watching wrestling to learn more moves, we'd have to make a page for every wrestler.--Riddler 06:29, 17 October 2007 (EDT)
      • Also, if we do this, we'll have to include pages for characters like Spock. They get referenced in the show alot.--Riddler 17:05, 17 October 2007 (EDT)
        • Referenced does not equal appeared.--Hardvice (talk) 17:13, 17 October 2007 (EDT)
      • We have pages for each and every person who has appeared on television to date--all the reporters, the cooking show host, etc. We can't assume that the wrestler character is Rey Mysterio in the world of Heroes, even though stock footage of Rey Mysterio in the real world was used.--Hardvice (talk) 17:13, 17 October 2007 (EDT)
        • Unless the person actually acted for Heroes, I don't think we should have pages for them. The cooking show host I'm unsure of, I don't watch cooking shows. But the "6-1-9" is a signature move, if we don't assume it's Rey Mysterio we assume it's stolen footage or something to that effect. I say we only show people who act FOR the show, not those who are footage or clips from other shows. If we include "wrestler", we gotta include Spock and anyone who's been mentioned in general (including comic book characters.)--Riddler 17:20, 17 October 2007 (EDT)
          • Again, mentioned does not equal appeared. The wrestler actually appeared. Spock did not. If he did, then we might consider him (or more accurately, Leonard Nimoy) a character in the world of Heroes, or we might not. And we can't assume that the world of Heroes = the real world. If Damon had said "hey, that's Rey Mysterio!", that would be different. Instead, we have footage of a wrestler who is played by Oscar Gutierrez which, in the world of Heroes, may or may not be the same character he portrays as Rey Mysterio.--Hardvice (talk) 17:36, 17 October 2007 (EDT)
          • Why would we include Spock? His image has never appeared in any episode. The wrestler's image has...just as Laura Lancaster's and Angela Bromstad's images have appeared in episodes (though Laura's was only in the unaired pilot). Who is to say that Rey Mysterio/Oscar Gutierrez didn't actually perform for the show, or more likely, was paid to have his likeness used. Does it matter if the footage was taped beforehand? By that logic, then the pictures of young Milo Ventimiglia are not Peter, they are Milo....As for the cooking show host, Chris Oliver was brought in to do the scene specifically for Heroes. She actually lists it on her resume, too. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 17:40, 17 October 2007 (EDT)

Who is Bob

I think this is the BIG question. We have now found out that Bob was one of "the Twelve" and that Nathan knows of him. I feel as though the fact that Nathan couldn't remember his surname may become relevant. Everyone in the picture seems to be related to someone in the show, could Bob be someones brother or father??

  • Bob has Alchemy. --Hero!(talk)(contribs) 10:08, 17 October 2007 (EDT)
    • I think the writers have made that character a little joke. They named him Bob, and they don't know his surname. Haha.--Ice Vision 22:08, 17 October 2007 (EDT)
      • I first heard his name was Bob from some pre-season spoiler, and I can't help thinking they've continued to call him just Bob to play on those suspicions. Not that the episodes we've seen were written after the spoilers, but still. --Unfalln 01:07, 18 October 2007 (EDT)
      • I'm pulling for his last name to be "Ryerson" That would just make my week. (Admin 01:11, 18 October 2007 (EDT))
        • Watch out for that step Mohinder, its a dooosie.. --HandsOffMyPeter 18:05, 19 October 2007 (EDT)
          • Too late, he's already stepped in the "move in with Matt and adopt a love-child" puddle. Perhaps he'll miss it tomorrow. --Unfalln 10:11, 20 October 2007 (EDT)

Is West bad?

I may be going for a long shot, but does anyone get a feel West could be bad? I got the idea that when they were ontop of Hollywood, he had a tinge on evil. It is quite remarmkable that he is at the same school, in the same class, and bumps into Claire on her first day, isn't it? Also, he could have been Kaito's killer as when they jumped off the ledge, he could have flown away!

  • They're definitely playing him mildly creepy. It's probably just to build tension, but who knows?--Hardvice (talk) 17:08, 17 October 2007 (EDT)
    • I have a theory about Claire and West, albeit a longshot. Maybe their relationship is part of a bigger plan, just as DL's and Niki's was. Apparently Linderman had it all arranged for them to meet, fall in love and have Micah. They met when they were very young if I can recall some pictures at Linderman's. Any thoughts? --SomeoneImportant 18:15, 17 October 2007 (EDT)

Micah's Power Expansion

We all know that the demonstration of Micah's powers includes placing one hand on an electronic device or machine, closing his eyes, and then commensing communication with it. After Monica scolds him for rigging the pay per view, he exhibits the exact same manurisms while embracing her. One hand with solid contact, closing of eyes and concentrating, and even throwing in a personally felt, untold feeling of Monica. Kind of makes me believe that Micah may be able to communicate with humans in a similar manner. Possibily, the central nervous system, accompanied with the small electrical charge all humans carry is enough to make a rudimentary system or network to allow Micah to communicate with the main frame of the "computer", or the brain. It also seems to be relatively unnoticed by Monica, so essentially it appears he may be able to communicate with humans on a completely subconscious level. I know i may be taking a little bit of a leap, but it makes sense to me. --HandsOffMyPeter 18:02, 19 October 2007 (EDT)

  • I think it's safer to say, based on his words and actions, that he tried to use his power to communicate with Monica's mind/brain/whatever. But he even notes that he can't "fix" her dreams.--Hardvice (talk) 18:05, 19 October 2007 (EDT)
    • How could Micah know if he could or could not fix her dreams unless he made contact, and communicated with her "whatever" (its just easier) on some level. Seems like she has only shared her feelings of escaping the hell of New Orleans to her friend, always keeping up a positive, motherly image at home. And Micah barely knows her, so it seems very unlikely he would know her dreams on a personal level. Ive always felt that Micah had an ability to keep his mother calm and on the level. Michah would often state that she needed to be with him, and that she would be alright if they were together. I think this is just another incident that makes me believe it more. --HandsOffMyPeter 18:15, 19 October 2007 (EDT)
      • If his power worked on people then he would have been able to "fix" her. The scene is almost definitely him hoping he can fix her, too, but lamenting that he cannot. If you want to try to ask the writers directly then check out a CBR interview and drop them an email and if you're lucky they'll ask the writers directly during their next interview. I've already seen a few answers from different popular questions I've seen here before in the past...and you're not the only one wondering if he had any effect. So give them a shot. :) (Admin 18:41, 19 October 2007 (EDT))
        • She asked him what was up, he stated "I wish I could fix your dreams." He flat out said that he was unable to use her power on her. I like that the crew threw something in like that, same with Claire's toe regeneration. There are limits we were unsure of, they confirmed. Claire can regrow limbs, Micah can only "talk" to machines.--Riddler 18:43, 19 October 2007 (EDT)
          • Another interpretation: his power was able to let him know what her dreams are, presumably to make a life outside of New Orleans, and he was saying that he couldn't do anything about that. So his power may extend, say, to reading "information systems" and people are just bio-electric versions. --FissionChips 09:40, 20 October 2007 (EDT)
            • Besides, in order to fix her dreams he'd need to do a bit more than just a bit of internal rewiring. --Unfalln 10:13, 20 October 2007 (EDT)
          • Yeah, I definately think y'all are looking a bit too much into this. --Bob (Talk) 10:16, 20 October 2007 (EDT)

I miss the monologues

Did they really stop having introductory monologues as of Lizards? Or did we just decide not to use them any more?--MiamiVolts (talk) 14:02, 21 October 2007 (EDT)

  • There hasn't been one this season except the intro to Four Months Later, and that one was slightly different from normal monologues since it was intercut with dialogue from the scenes it played over. My guess is that they are no longer using them, perhaps as a way of differentiating Season 2 from Season 1. But then again, not all Season 1 episodes had them, so who knows? Maybe they'll be back.--Hardvice (talk) 14:15, 21 October 2007 (EDT)
    • Maybe it depends on the director?--Riddler 15:09, 21 October 2007 (EDT)
      • It might. But this is the longest stretch without one to date, I believe.--Hardvice (talk) 18:21, 21 October 2007 (EDT)
        • They're back!!!--Rayhond (talk) 12:14, 23 October 2007 (EDT)
          • Yes, I was happy that both Hiro and the monologues came back this week. I'd have been happier if Hiro's storyline didn't end so quickly. I could barely read the subtitles last night and then they were gone. Still, I enjoyed having some comedy back in the story.--MiamiVolts (talk) 12:23, 23 October 2007 (EDT)