Talk:Ability immunity

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Funny, I was just thinking about making a similar article. It was Eric Doyle's teasing question to Michael in Doyle, in combination with Joe and Aron's "rule of Ted" comment, that really made me think about the idea. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 22:46, 18 October 2008 (EDT)

  • I think this shouldn't be an user subpage, instead it should go on the bottom line of the abilities navbar just like "ability extension" "ability heredity".

Clothing Phenomenon

Am I the only one that finds it odd that character's powers sometimes are active throughout their clothing? A good example is when Claire goes into the fire and her clothes are not, you know, burned off. I don't know if this was the right place to bring this up... --Brother D 20:38, 3 November 2008 (EST)

That wasn't Ability immunity, that was censorship laws preventing CP Max00:27, 12 December 2008 (EST)

And that would also be ability EXTENSION, not ability IMMUNITY. Claire's clothes not being burned doesn't mean she's immune to her own ability (And if she were immune to her own ability, then that'd defeat the purpose.).--ERROR 21:57, 11 June 2009 (EDT)

Acid secretion?

I think Acid secretion should go here, but I'm not 100% sure. Thoughts? --Aburu 00:25, 19 October 2008 (EDT)

Can't find the wording

Enhanced hearing. Mohinder tortures Sylar with a tuning fork. Also, Disintegration touch might be applicable on the page, her hands are fine when she's done using her ability.--Riddler 15:17, 19 October 2008 (EDT)

  • Empathic mimicry even, since he doesn't control what he absorbs, and Intuitive aptitude since it comes with an uncontrollable hunger? I may be reading into this a bit too much or wrong, though.--Riddler 15:18, 19 October 2008 (EDT)
    • No, I agree. All of them should be added. Therequiembellishere 15:33, 19 October 2008 (EDT)
    • I would definitely add the first two, and could go either way on Empathic mimicry or Intuitive aptitude (though I'd lean toward not adding them). Stevehim 15:41, 19 October 2008 (EDT)
      • Ability immunity is not about the negative effects of powers...it's about whether or not the power can be used on the user. It's a subtle difference. With enhanced hearing, it would be included if we knew for certain that Dale or Sylar could, I don't know, hear their own heart, or not hear their blood rushing through their veins. Just because the sounds they hear bother them doesn't mean they're immune or not immune.

        With empathic mimicry, it would be included if Peter could somehow absorb his own power or not absorb his own power. Since that in and of itself is a null situation (he doesn't have another ability to absorb, or there's no way to check if he's absorbing his own power, or really it's just a silly thought process), then Peter's ability shouldn't be here. Maybe if he met another person with empathic mimicry there might be an argument, but even then it would be Peter using his power on somebody else. And since I'm talking hypothetically, I'll stop with that one.

        For intuitive aptitude, that should only be included if we had evidence that Sylar could or couldn't intuitively understand how his own brain works. We don't have that, so the power shouldn't be included.

        I have mixed feelings about disintegration touch. No, Felicia never seemed affected by her own power...but since we really don't know anything about her power other than the fact that her hand glows orange (and we assume it has something to do with disintegration--maybe it only disintegrates one's fingernails) it's hard to say that it affects Felicia or not. I'm not opposed to it on this page, but since we don't know anything about the power, it's probably best to leave it off.

        Sorry this is such a long (winded) post, but these 3 (or 4) powers really don't belong on this page. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 23:10, 19 October 2008 (EDT)

        • I'm not sure if this exactly pertains to the situation, but I recall that in BTE it was confirmed that when Peter met his future self he could only absorb empathic mimicry. I think this was an issue for Template:Peterexposed as well.--MiamiVolts (talk) 00:00, 20 October 2008 (EDT)
          • Yeah, I don't really know if that applies or not. It's such a weird case and I can't really wrap my head around it. In either case, it's probably best to not put it on the page. I suppose a note at the bottom wouldn't hurt. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 00:28, 20 October 2008 (EDT)
          • I had initially assumed that it included the negative aspects of the power as well, but I think that was because it was fresh in my mind from discussing the Pyrokinesis-container thing. ;) If we're not including side effects though, then Ted's lack of illness, Meredith's ability to breathe without oxygen (even though I still maintain that never occurred), and possibly even Elle's problem with water (which sort of promotes a myth and doesn't really make sense anyway) could be called into question, since (like the tuning fork), they're either side effects of the power, or require an outside element for the negative effect to occur. Stevehim 00:42, 20 October 2008 (EDT)
            • With regards to Meredith, couldnt the oxygen in the combustion equation (Fuel + O2 --> heat + CO2) be being absorbed by Meredith's body. in other words, her fire Does the same thing as her lungs? --SacValleyDweller (talk) 00:58, 20 October 2008 (EDT)
            • Actually, those examples are all legit. The abilities and/or their side effects affecting the user is what the page is about. Ted's ability causes others to get ill...but not himself. Meredith can burn things...but not herself. Elle can shock things...including herself. The oven burns things...but not itself. For Dale's enhanced hearing, she hears things normally unheard...but we don't know if she can hear herself or not. If she said something about hearing her toenails growing, then she'd be included in the Examples of Lack of Immunity. If she she tried to listen for the cilia in her stomach swishing back and forth but was unable to hear them, then she'd be would be included in the Examples of Immunity section. Since we don't know whether or not she can hear herself, (or at least "enhanced hearing" of herself) she's not included in the page at all...Do any of my silly examples make sense? -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 01:09, 20 October 2008 (EDT)
              • I understand the distinction you're making, and can see how we wouldn't consider the pain from hearing a side effect of the power in that she can't project the pain onto others. Just to Devil's Advocate for a moment, how are we defining side effect? If suffocation due to lack of oxygen (which requires a specific environment) is a side effect, would we also consider the shrapnel from blowing up a tank of gas one too? The side effect of the former is 'burning oxygen,' and the result (or side effect of the side effect) from that is beings who need oxygen to breathe cannot do so. The side effect of the latter is combusting gasoline, and the result would be flying shrapnel, which would cause bystanders (including Meredith) to be injured. Not that I think that really should be included, and I know I'm stretching things here...I'm also just further picking my bone with the oxygen depletion scene a little, as I've watched it 10 times and really don't think it ever occurred (though I do like SacValleyDweller's theory on where the O2 would go and why Meredith could be immune).  ;) Stevehim 01:52, 20 October 2008 (EDT)
                • Well I won't get into the oxygen issue here, especially since that's one of those borderline cases. But I will say that pyrokinesis does belong on this page because Meredith can't burn herself. I don't distinguish between side effect and, I don't know, main (?) effect--the power is the power, and that includes all side effects or secondary causes of the ability. That goes for this page, too. Ted's ability causes radiation, but not in him. It also causes things to burn (which I guess is a secondary effect of the radiation), but not himself. It also can cause cancer (which is definitely a side effect), but not in him. With enhanced hearing, the ability is not to cause pain, it's about hearing things that others can't hear. If Sylar could hear himself (in a way that others couldn't) then he'd be included on this page. Or even if we knew he couldn't hear himself, he would be included in a different section. Since we don't know, he shouldn't be included. I don't want to sound like I'm beating a dead horse, so I'll stop now. :) -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 11:10, 20 October 2008 (EDT)
                  • Agreed. By the way, are we sure that Linderman can't use his ability on himself? Linda's comment suggested that she would be able to heal herself. --Referos 15:21, 20 October 2008 (EDT)

Induced radioactivity

I assume Ryan's remarks in the changelog regarding clonazepam have something to do with speculation? Would it be okay to rephrase the first sentence of the second paragraph and say "Peter and Sylar have also absorbed this ability, and used this ability. Unlike Ted, they have used it to create nuclear proportions, but nonetheless have never had any lasting effects from it." I think it's important and non-speculative to distinguish that only Peter and Sylar have gone nuclear, and that they both had RCR.--MiamiVolts (talk) 00:23, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

  • My edit summary should have read "as much as I'd like to link to clonazepam"...because the paragraph talked about Claire injecting Ted with a tranquilizer. I deleted that sentence because there have been other times Ted exploded but wasn't given a tranquilizer. The tranquilizer was clonazepam....Ted has also "gone nuclear"--that's the definition of his power. But if you're referring to large atom bomb-size explosions, yeah, there's a bit of a difference. I think your sentence above is fine for the second paragraph. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 00:40, 30 October 2008 (EDT)
    • Ah, thanks for the clarification. I was indeed referring to atom bomb-size explosions, and have revised the above phrasing and added it to the page. I didn't think we needed to use the word "large" before "atom bomb-size explosions" cause that seems to me to be rather implied by the terminology. Feel free to revise if it is still unclear.--MiamiVolts (talk) 01:11, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

Precognitive Dreams

Would the fact that Angela was harmed by Arthur in her dream be worth mentioning that she's vulnerable to neural affecting abilities from the future? Dracomaster4 02:56, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

That might be too speculative as of now... Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ U | T | C ] 07:37, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

Power absorption

Can we add that as lack of immunity? Peter was certainly exposed to the ability before Arthur used it in him, it's the opposite of what happened with invisibility, Peter turned invisible and was able to see Claude the moment he mimicked his ability. Power absorption does seem to require active concentration, but if Peter already "had it" in his system and was able to have his ability removed, does this mean that power shows lack of immunity? Intuitive Empath 11:57, 1 November 2008 (EDT)

  • Do we know for certain that Peter had it in his system? I thought Arthur 'died' before Peter's power manifested. The next episode appears to be a flashback, so perhaps matters will be clarified on Monday. --Stevehim 12:14, 1 November 2008 (EDT)
    • Normally, Peter would have absorbed Arthur's ability as soon as he entered the room. However, Arthur could also have a nullification ability that blocked that from happening (though that's speculation since he's never shown using nullification).--MiamiVolts (talk) 12:32, 1 November 2008 (EDT)
      • That's what I meant, the moment Peter entered that room, he was exposed to power absorption, and that's what got me thinking. And the next episode is in two weeks. Intuitive Empath 15:40, 1 November 2008 (EDT)
        • Ah, sorry about that. I misunderstood. I defintely agree that Peter should have absorbed his father's power upon walking into the room. I'm not sure if it would qualify for lack of immunity though, since it was the same power being used against him, and not his own. It would be similar to Niki or Knox being hit by someone with enhanced strength and being affected by it, or Elle being struck by someone else's lightning (or Flint and Meredith being affected by each others' powers). And I forgot we lose this week to the elections.  :( --Stevehim 16:34, 1 November 2008 (EDT)
          • When you think about it, Peter probably didn't realize his father had powers. So even if Peter had absorbed them, he wouldn't have known. Plus, Arthur later took all of Peter's powers, so even if he had his father's powers, I think he'd have lost them all when his embraced him. Just my theory though. Underfate 08:48, 2 November 2008 (EDT)
            • I take it back. If we're including the space-time manipulation immunity, then this should be included, as should Elle using lightning on Peter, and Sylar and Peter using telekinesis on each other. I'll add them now. --Stevehim 22:58, 8 November 2008 (EST)

Stevehim, if Flint and Meredith used their abilities on each other, then they wouldn't be hurt, as they are immune to their own abilities. If you're immune to your own fire, why not someone else's?--ERROR 21:59, 11 June 2009 (EDT)

Healing

Wouldn't the ability to heal others but not yourself be considered an immunity (although negative) rather than a lack of immunity? Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ U | T | C ] 23:06, 10 December 2008 (EST)

  • I would say so...but this page has taken a very different direction than the way I understood immunity to work. I never understood "ability immunity" as being immune from ill effects of your ability, but to be immune from using your ability on yourself. The page says differently, though. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 23:09, 10 December 2008 (EST)
    • We really should pin this down at some point. Does "immunity" mean being immune from the ill effects of one's ability, or being immune to using one's ability on oneself? Personally I vote for the latter--meaning that you can't use your ability on yourself, whether it's good or bad. That way we get away from judgmental and possibly biased ideas of what's good and bad. For instance, an ability like pyrokinesis or electric manipulation might have positive or negative effects. The question shouldn't be whether people can use the ability to hurt themselves, but whether they can simply use the ability on themselves or not. That would also mean that a person who has the ability of healing does have ability immunity, since they can't heal themselves. That's just my opinion...but we should really figure this out soon so we can figure out what "immunity" means in the world of Heroes. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 19:20, 9 June 2009 (EDT)

Pyrokinesis

In Dual, Meredith seemed to be harmed by her fire. She was sweating and looking quite uncomfortable, and so was Noah. Whenever she unwillingly emitted large amounts of fire, she showed signs of being in pain ("Ow! Ow... Ow."). But normally, she's immune to her ability. I added this to the article. Comment and edit as you please.--ERROR 22:07, 11 June 2009 (EDT)

  • She was injected with adrenaline moments before. I believe that's why she was in pain, sweating, uncomfortable. She also seemed anxious--I believe because she knew she was unstable. I don't believe her fire was hurting her. It never had before. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 22:58, 11 June 2009 (EDT)
    • What was her 'cause of death' then? --Stevehim 00:23, 3 December 2009 (EST)
      • Being crushed to death in the collapsing Primatech building. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 00:56, 3 December 2009 (EST)
        • It seemed like she was just a ball of fire before that happened. Plus, didn't Doyle get out alive without us seeing that (I forget...it's been awhile since I've seen the episode). --Stevehim 18:12, 3 December 2009 (EST)

Intuitive aptitude

Samson was about to Sylarize his son, which suggests they are not immune to brain examination. Should this be added at least to Notes? Green.gif AltesUTC CH

  • I don't think so. For me, immunity to this ability would be something like not being able to be read or understood. Sylar figured things out about Noah when he was in a Primatech cell, immunity for me would be that not happening to someone with the ability. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 12:31, 14 September 2009 (EDT)
    • I'm saying that Sylar and Samson, while possessing IA, are not immune to it. Lack of immunity. Green.gif AltesUTC CH
      • Why does it say that Samson absorb regeneration and it is not listed on his page. User:50000JH/signatures
        • No, it says Samson is about to absorb regeneration. Green.gif AltesUTC CH
      • Why would they be immune? Nothing is actually being done to them, I'm not sure why that's listed. It's like saying that if someone with enhanced memory remembers another person with enhanced memory, they are not immune to their power.--PJDEP 16:35, 14 December 2009 (EST)

Tracy Strauss

The Tracy Strauss section commented that Tracy may have been perfectly fine had she thawed out. I changed in to point out that she indeed had thawed after being shot by Danko out and remained unscratched, but now I'm thinking that second sentence should just be completely removed, because Tracy was still temporarily frozen by her ability, regardless of whether or not she can recover from it. She still has resistance to a certain extent.--Kooliki 03:43, 4 October 2009 (EDT)

  • She was frozen because water from the sprinklers covered her and was frozen by that wave of cold energy she sent out.--WarGrowlmon18 00:42, 5 October 2009 (EDT)
    • So she was encased in frozen ice, but she herself was not frozen by her ability? Then why did the ice in the shape of her eye blink after she had been shattered, and for that matter why did she shatter rather than just have the outer casing of ice break and get impaled, intact, by the bullet? It was a clean blast, as though she was an ice sculpture herself--Kooliki 00:35, 6 October 2009 (EDT)

Lack of Immunity space time manipulation

When future Hiro went back in Hiros, is this why he went to Peter and not Hiro, as Hiro will be frozen in time.[50000JH 16:57, 3 November 2009 (EST)]

EM and PA

As there seem to be the same ability but different versions, should we put them together, both are immune to EM but have a lack of immunity to PA. [50000JH 17:03, 3 November 2009 (EST)]

  • Not shown as the same in the show, not shown as the same here, what the writers discuss behind the scenes is only canon if they say it or if there's no info on the subject on-screen. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 17:40, 3 November 2009 (EST)

Shape shifting

What would shape shifting go under? Sylar was unable to become the President and in fact seemed to wig out when he shook Peter's hand, but did become Peter briefly. It's similar to the EM thing where Peter only could get EM from Future Peter and not, say, body insertion. Although, he couldn't hold any one form except his own, so is this "partial" immunity? DigitalCount 00:16, 18 November 2009 (EST)

Power absorption

Should we not also point out that Peter lost his empathic mimicry, which was the ability that allowed him to access the others... it is possible that power absorption is not immune to itself. --mc_hammark 15:55, 27 March 2010 (EDT)