Talk:Supercharging

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Ability Naming Conventions
The following sources are used for determining evolved human ability names, in order:
Episodes
2. Near-canon Sources Webisodes,
Graphic Novels,
iStories,
Heroes Evolutions
3. Secondary Sources Episode commentary,
Interviews,
Heroes: Survival
4. Common names for abilities Names from other works
5. Descriptions of abilities Descriptions
6. Possessor's name If no non-speculative
description is possible

Note: The highlighted row represents the level of the source used to determine supercharging's name.
Source/Explanation
Ando has said that he can "supercharge" another person's ability (Brave New World).
Archives Archived Topics
Sep-Dec 2008
Dec 2008-Apr 2009
June 2009-Jan 2010 It'


Which way does it go?

It certainly seems like the electrical aspects are the main power, while the charging is a byproduct. What do you think? Are the red sparks a byproduct of the charging, or is the charging a byproduct of the sparks?--Gibbeynator 11:30, 18 January 2010 (EST)

  • I believe that the sparks are a byproduct of the charging, then again, I really think that they aren't byproducts at all and the ability is supposed to be the way it is. --Leckie -- Talk 11:36, 18 January 2010 (EST)
    • Maybe I should have been more specific. I'm trying to figure out which part of the ability goes first. Does the charging manifest itself as sparks, or are the sparks capable of charging things?--Gibbeynator 11:44, 18 January 2010 (EST)
      • I think that's kind of a chicken and egg question. Not sure it matters or if there is an answer. As an aside, I'll note that normal lightning bolts actually flow from the ground into the sky once the path of flow has been established. So my theory would be that it's the same with Ando's ability--that the ability works the same for both specials and non-specials, and it's just something with the evolved human force in general that allows specials to draw out from Ando the type of energy needed to charge and not harm them. We do know that some sort of energy needed to be added to the formula to make it work properly. All that said, it is just a theory--since we are talking fiction, the power doesn't have to behave like normal lightning.--MiamiVolts (talk) 14:08, 18 January 2010 (EST)
        • Technically, eggs come first because fish, amphibians and reptiles lay eggs, and they came up long before any chicken. I get the point, just letting out the nerdiness. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 15:24, 18 January 2010 (EST)
          • I say that Ando's power is electrical based because his sparks have the properties of electricity, and that the charging is just something the sparks can do on people with abilities.--Gibbeynator 20:03, 18 January 2010 (EST)
            • What properties are these, out of curiosity?--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 20:47, 18 January 2010 (EST)
              • Well, if it DIDN'T have electrical properties, it wouldn't work as shock therapy to fix Hiro's brain, now would it? Among other things, it's apparently a viable offensive attack, which wouldn't work if the sparks were just for show. Not to mention the fact we saw Ando use it to short out the door lock in the asylum. I'm fairly confident to say that the ability is electrical based.--Gibbeynator 22:23, 18 January 2010 (EST)
                • Or it is a form of energy which acts like electricity. If this was simply electricity, it's the same as saying that Elle could amplify people's abilities. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 06:46, 19 January 2010 (EST)
                  • You could say the "red lightning" is in fact Ando "supercharging" the atoms wherever he "aims". Think of how actual lightning works. If he's not actively using/suppressing his ability, that would explain the sparks when he is unconscious. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 19:26, 19 January 2010 (EST)
                    • I'd say it has electrical properties for a few reasons. For starters, they call it Lightning, do ho ho. The sound effect is that of electricity whenever it's used, he uses it as "electro-shock therapy", and he uses it on electronics (usually to open doors.) It all just adds up. --Riddler 19:48, 19 January 2010 (EST)

WHAT!?

We're seriously calling this ability Red Lightning now?! IMO that's just silly! His first demonstration of his ability was supercharging a power and that seems to be the base effect of his ability. Why the sudden change?--Hiroman 10:58, 20 January 2010 (EST)

  • Particularly with "red lightning" being less than half of the consensus. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 11:00, 20 January 2010 (EST)
    • The first thing we saw Matt do was pull thoughts but then he was able to push thoughts; the reason we didn't rename that was because it falls under the domain of telepathy - essentially meaning "movement of thougths". Supercharging however, does not cover the domain of what Ando can do. The first thing we saw him do was supercharge, yes, but this seems to be a byproduct of his ability as he was also able to electroshock Hiro's brain, and overpower the electrical system to the door. --mc_hammark 11:06, 20 January 2010 (EST)
      • And "red lightning" does not cover his ability to charge up abilities. He is supercharging the energy that is ultimately becoming the electricity. Just the use of "charging" does imply electricity. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 11:15, 20 January 2010 (EST)
        • If you put electricity into something, it charges it up, or makes it work. And it's less like it "charged" it since it automatically made Matt read minds and automatically made daphne run back in time without their consent. I'm not saying it is electricity, but it has properties much like electricity, much more than it has in common with a charger. --mc_hammark 11:20, 20 January 2010 (EST)
          • When you charge something, you are adding energy to it by way of electrical current. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 11:23, 20 January 2010 (EST)
            • Sorry, are you for "Red lightning" or "Supercharging" because it sounds like you're arguing for red lightning. And by default, if it's called red lightning it would put an electrical type current through the person and charge them, which would cover all known aspects. --mc_hammark 11:27, 20 January 2010 (EST)
              • Like said above, supercharging already suggests the addition of energy. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 11:31, 20 January 2010 (EST)
              • I am arguing for "supercharging", mc hammark. The "lightning" part of the name does not explain the ability augmentation at all, or else Elle could have done the same thing. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 12:31, 20 January 2010 (EST)
    • Richard, if you read what I said above, the above poll is unofficial. There is no need for consensus here, since we normally go with whatever the ability is explicitly called--the ability has never been called 'ability supercharging' or 'supercharging' in the story, to my knowledge. And although Ted's ability name came from the assignment tracker, I liken this to his ability's situation somewhat since the main part of Ted's ability was to emit radioactivity, yet he could also create an electromagnetic pulse.--MiamiVolts (talk) 14:03, 20 January 2010 (EST)
      • I understand that. However, before anyone called it "red lightning", Ando was frequently referred to as a "supercharger", and his ability as "supercharging" (particularly in Villains/Fugitives). We wound up not keeping "lightning" when Elle's ability was named as such (before "electric manipulation" came around) by various characters on the show. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 14:33, 20 January 2010 (EST)
        • As far as I know, we referred to it here as "supercharging", but it was never referred to as such explicitly in the show. Only the term "supercharger" was used in the story. Regarding your 'lightning' analogy, I recall us using the term 'lightning' here for Elle's ability until the assignment tracker came out and called her ability 'electrical manipulation', so I'm not sure what you mean.--MiamiVolts (talk) 15:55, 20 January 2010 (EST)
          • If Ando was referred to as a supercharger, it means he superchargers, the act of which is called supercharging. By no means a stretch. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 15:59, 20 January 2010 (EST)
            • Perhaps, but it still makes it a descriptive fan-coined name, and actual names used in-story always trump that. Like Hardvice used to say: we need to deal with "the drunken monkey's kiss" or "stench of a thousand corpses" or whatever they throw at us and avoid the impulse to come up with things like "putrification manipulation" or "biodegradokinesis" and the like. Canon wins, plain and simple.--MiamiVolts (talk) 16:17, 20 January 2010 (EST)
              • That leaves us open for names that fail to describe the ability accurately. I know this isn't the place to discuss the naming policy, but what we need in it is a balance between canon and accuracy. Stick with canon only as long as it is accurate. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 16:32, 20 January 2010 (EST)
                • I agree with your viewpoint, and that you are correct that this is not the place to discuss changing the naming policy.--MiamiVolts (talk) 16:46, 20 January 2010 (EST)
                  • One thing to note: "red lightning" has always been referred to as "your red lightning", implying it is a description, not a definition. "Supercharger" was used several times in Villains and Fugitives (in a similar light), thus they are on equal footing as far as potential for names is concerned. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 17:06, 20 January 2010 (EST)
                    • Not sure what you mean, but both Mohinder and Ando have called the ability 'red lightning'. It's hard for me to image Ando saying 'your red lightning' when it's his ability, not that that would matter. Also, 'supercharger' is a term used to describe the person, not the ability. The only reason to use a term like 'supercharger' for the ability is if it was explicitly given to us that way. We have 'puppet master' cause the assignment tracker explicitly lists Doyle's ability that way, but that is not the case for Ando's ability.--MiamiVolts (talk) 17:58, 20 January 2010 (EST)
                      • I can see the points made on both side and this what it comes down to: canon versus "accuracy". Red lighting in a canon name given by many characters. I honestly always saw it as a nickname of the ability, not an actual name itself. Yes, Supercharging would be a much better name, but when viewers of the show look for the ability on the wiki what will they search for? Red lighting. Why? Because that is the most common name/term used throughout the show whereas no one has every flat out said "supercharging". Only "Supercharger". So we have to go with Red lighting. Trust me, I would prefer Supercharging, but just got to deal with it. --OutbackZack 18:12, 20 January 2010 (EST)
                        • Ando is called a supercharger, meaning he's responsible for the act of supercharging. As for red lightning, a redirect is all we need. If this wiki was capable of creating the term "intuitive aptitude", something that was eventually made canon, we can use supercharging based on what Ando was called. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 18:28, 20 January 2010 (EST)
                          • Red lighting was explicitly said, Super charging wasn't. As with current rules, we have to go with Red lighting. I don't like it either, but nothing can be changed unless the rules are changed. --OutbackZack 19:02, 20 January 2010 (EST)
                            • And that's why there is a discussion about this, and by the current rules, anything said in the episode is valid, so we're using something derived from what was said. No one ever said Nathan had flight, they only ever said he could fly. We can it flight nonetheless. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 20:00, 20 January 2010 (EST)
                              • What I find most ironic that Ando's ability may be what we thought it was since the first time we saw it - electric manipulation. Somebody theorized that Ando creates a special type of electricity which causes the person drown in adrenaline. Although speculative and never confirmed, seems likely. And Ando can use his lightning on people without amplifying their powers, so which aspect of his ability is primary? Green.gif AltesUTC CH 09:53, 25 January 2010 (EST)

Red lightning primary Power?

I just watched Pass/Fail (running a few days late, I know) and noticed right at the beginning that Mohinder shook Ando's hand goodbye... and nothing happened. Then I realised when they escaped the mental facility previously, Hiro touched both Mohinder and Ando... and nothing happened (well, except Teleporting...). The point I'm getting at is, either the Supercharging aspect of Ando's Power is gone, or he can choose not to do it anymore. I'd like to lean toward the latter, as I really like this aspect of Ando's Power. Thoughts? PowerSink 16:41, 21 January 2010 (EST)

  • Ando probably has better control now. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 16:46, 21 January 2010 (EST)
    • Similar to how Parkman doesn't just pick up every random thought anymore. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 16:46, 21 January 2010 (EST)
    • Or how peter doensn't take everyone power anymore when just touching them -- (WaterRatj) 08:01, 23 January 2010 (EST)
    • In Brave New World he was able to use it to supercharge Hiro's power so he still has it, he probably just didn't have a reason to use that aspect of his ability.--WarGrowlmon18 00:13, 9 February 2010 (EST)

Concensus?

Since this ability was change without a concensus and there are many complaints against the name (including me). Don't you think we should made a concensus? --Dark Master 01:07, 25 January 2010 (EST)

  • I moved the article from "Ando's ability" without consensus--there is no need for consensus when descriptions have been given in the show. Likewise, we don't need consensus to name an article when there are multiple canon names. We need a majority. Both "red lightning" and "supercharging" (or some form thereof) have been said on the show. I moved the article to "red lightning" because 1) that was the more explicit of the two, 2) it was said by Ando, and 3) it was said the most recently. Either name is fine since neither was given with the explicitness of something like an Assignment Tracker file...but I personally think "red lightning" was the term preferred by Ando, so we should respect that, regardless of the reason Ando chooses to call it that. But to answer your original question, no, we don't need consensus. We only need a majority vote. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 01:42, 25 January 2010 (EST)
    • Ok --Dark Master 02:07, 25 January 2010 (EST)
    • "Supercharging" currently has the most votes, how long do we leave the poll open?--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 14:20, 25 January 2010 (EST)
    • Ryan, I guess you are correct that 'supercharger' can be included as a possibility. I'm not sure if you read what I had posted above, but is that what you are saying? Even though it's grammatically inconsistent with our other ability names, 'supercharger' was used in the story, while 'supercharging' wasn't. I think that follows from the discussion on whether it was okay to change 'puppet master' to 'puppet mastery', where we did not have consensus to consider a derived name when we had one that was explicitly given to us. Or did I misunderstand and that only applies to the assignment tracker? Can you clarify?--MiamiVolts (talk) 01:34, 26 January 2010 (EST)
      • "Puppet master" was (unfortunately) given to us explicitly, so that's basically why that name hasn't been changed to something more user-friendly and grammatically correct. "Supercharger" wasn't said explicitly (Matt said it in an offhand manner, if I recall--almost a knee jerk reaction to what Ando could do), so I guess we can take more liberties with using derivatives. At least that's how I see it--but this is somewhat new territory for us. Personally, I'd just rather go with "red lightning". The more I think about it, the more it sticks in my head that that's the name Ando uses to describe his own ability, even if he's just describing the way it looks. We should respect that. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 01:38, 26 January 2010 (EST)
        • The thing is, are we going to take the conversation Matt, Daphne and Ando were having, as well as Ando's character, into account? The ability was chosen because Ando's a great friend, the "ultimate sidekick." Ando's desire in the moment he injected himself was to help Hiro. Wouldn't that imply that supercharging is the base power, with the "red lightning" being a side effect? --DigitalCount 14:34, 29 January 2010 (EST)

Ando's Ability

Don't know which name will fit on this "Red Lightning" or "Supercharging"

We first see Ando to augment or amplify or charge the ability of others (Matt and Daphne), and everytime he amplifies an ability he needed to supply them with the current and the ability returns to normal once he stops it. The status of the ability depends on the amount of current he supplies to the user, shown on the IStory where Rachel tells Ando not to charge her too much so that she can control the place where they will be teleporting.

I think his ability acts like an electricity, the evolved human was an appliance and the "one of us" people are the normal ones. An appliance can only be used if it was charge or being supply by electricity, on heroes the evolved humans can use their abilities normally but once Ando supplies them with electricity their ability grows, but his current was still dangerous to normal people like a normal electricity. --Dark Master 07:09, 25 January 2010 (EST)

Acting like electricity doesn't make it electricity. Superfluids are liquid, but that doesn't make them water. We don't call Flint's ability "blue pyrokinesis", we shouldn't call Ando's "red lightning", red lightning is even a naturally occurring phenomenon. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 15:14, 25 January 2010 (EST)

  • I agree, I personally don't like "Red Lightning" it was more like a description for the ability and not the name itself--Dark Master 23:54, 25 January 2010 (EST)
    • I don't see why we should change it, Red Lightning may not be accurate, and it is a description but so was "The Haitian" the difference is Red Lightning is at least better than "supercharging" because I'm not sure how "supercharging" accounts for this ability in it's entirety, especially since Mohinder called "red lightning" and I.E. I kind of disagree with your comparison to this to "Blue Pyrokinesis" since the show has turned "Red Lighting" to mean it's own thing. I would agree with your comparison if Ando was simply Elle but with red instead of blue, but this is different, and is entirely different at least the main purpose for this ability is different.--Dman dustin 00:41, 2 February 2010 (EST)
      • The question shouldn't be whether the name is the right description or not. There is no rule that says an ability name must name what the ability does. The question should be whether we're using the names that have been given to us. Ando calls his ability "red lightning". So should we, in my opinion. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 01:02, 2 February 2010 (EST)
        • There are tons of "names" said by characters that we didn't use "Puppetting" for Doyle who said it himself that his ability was "Puppetting", ok there was an AT for "Puppet Master". But what about "Touch and Go" for Matt Jr., Hiro and Ando said it many times in the series. And I think there are many more names that come up for other ability. Why stick with one name when we have another one that was more likely to be an ability name than the description of the ability. I think "Supercharging" fits perfectly or should I say "Ability Supercharging": one he charge/amplify the ability of any evolved human "if they have physical contact" and must retain it for the whole period; two the effect of the amplification depends on how many electricity he supplies; three he can overload any mechanical device like any electricity do; four his ability can only be dangerous to human because they have no ability to charge. --Dark Master 08:16, 2 February 2010 (EST)
  • And we have both Ando and Hiro using the verb "supercharge" again in tonight's episode. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 22:57, 8 February 2010 (EST)

Rename to "supercharging"

In Brave New World, Ando very clearly referred to his ability as being able to "supercharge" Hiro. I'm all for changing the name of this ability to "supercharging" now. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 23:27, 8 February 2010 (EST)

  • Sounds good to me. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 23:33, 8 February 2010 (EST)
  • We've already taken a poll, and "supercharging" has the majority.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 23:54, 8 February 2010 (EST)
    • I have to say, I'm not entirely happy about it. This means we'll have to merge ability augmentation as well since we're deciding they're the same. Doesn't this make the whole split that we done pointless now? --mc_hammark 06:24, 9 February 2010 (EST)
      • When did we decide they were the same? Ability augmentation is quite specific, while supercharging doesn't necessarily refer to an evolved human. Also, healing and healing touch, disintegration and disintegration touch, precognition and precognitive dreaming, etc.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 15:14, 9 February 2010 (EST)
        • When has he ever supercharged anything other than an evolved human? --mc_hammark 15:17, 9 February 2010 (EST)
          • It could be argued that he supercharged the door button in order to open it. That's what I immediately thought anyway.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 15:18, 9 February 2010 (EST)
            • I dunno about that, supercharging something electrical would more likely overload it and fry the circuits (much like he did later on in the episode). --mc_hammark 15:20, 9 February 2010 (EST)
              • Maybe by overloading it it opened? That's what happens in movies anyway.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 15:31, 9 February 2010 (EST)
                • It's more likely explained by the electrical side of it. --mc_hammark 15:37, 9 February 2010 (EST)
                  • Regardless, "supercharging" had the majority of votes and comes from a canon source.--PJDEP - Need further explanation? 15:40, 9 February 2010 (EST)
                    • You're forgetting the point, what about Paulette's ability? --mc_hammark 15:43, 9 February 2010 (EST)
  • I still think Red Lightning is the proper choice. Not only has it been said numerous, numerous times on the show, it's been named in interviews too. The "Super charging" can be explained by the "lightning" aspect, in that electricity charges things. Supercharging doesn't describe the lightning aspect, and since we have two usable names, I think they one which describes it more clearly should be the one we use.--Riddler 16:54, 9 February 2010 (EST)
    • There has been plenty of explanation on how "supercharging" accounts for all known effects of the ability. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 18:50, 9 February 2010 (EST)
    • "Charging" implies an electric current. Lightning explained. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 18:56, 9 February 2010 (EST)

Shocking Hiro's Brain

even though i'm pretty sure there is no real explanation: how could ando shock hiros brain without killing him, where would he know how much voltage to use or how long to use his lightning? --Angel0941

  • Chances are he didn't know. But it's just a show. He doesn't really have to have it explained or that. It is sci fi after all. --mc_hammark 11:44, 21 February 2010 (EST)
    • I think he just used a small amount of energy to do it.--WarGrowlmon18 15:26, 21 February 2010 (EST)