Talk:Acidic blood

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Ability Naming Conventions
The following sources are used for determining evolved human ability names, in order:
1. Canon Sources Episodes
2. Near-canon Sources Webisodes,
Graphic Novels,
iStories,
Heroes Evolutions
3. Secondary Sources
Episode commentary,
Interviews,
Heroes: Survival
4. Common names for abilities Names from other works
5. Descriptions of abilities Descriptions
6. Possessor's name If no non-speculative
description is possible

Note: The highlighted row represents the level of the source used to determine acidic blood's name.
Source/Explanation
"Acidic blood" was confirmed to be Mary's ability by graphic novel writer Bill Hooper.

Ability name

When I created the name I accidentally put wrong ability name, I changed it to what I thought best described her ability. However if people think this should be changed back please say so. I have added a rename tag just so people can voice their opinions. --posted by Laughingdevilboy Talk 10:33, 14 April 2009 (EDT)

  • Perhaps acidic blood would be slightly more appropriate. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 11:15, 14 April 2009 (EDT)
    • That was my other thought, however I thought Bloody acidity sounded more like an ability. --posted by Laughingdevilboy

Talk 11:17, 14 April 2009 (EDT)

      • Yes, acidic blood sounds as though she just has something wrong with her blood, not that she has a special ability --Mc hammark 11:23, 14 April 2009 (EDT)
        • Acidic Blood definitely. it sums it up perfectly, and tbh mc hammark, if you do have acidic blood there is something wrong with your blood, its not really a useful thing ;P --Lolwut 15:13, 14 April 2009 (EDT)
          • Neither one is perfect... Acidic Blood sounds too medical condition-y and not like an ability while Blood Acidity doesn't really sound like an ability. --Peter 15:17, 14 April 2009 (EDT)
        • It's no worse than puppet master (an occupation), or enhanced hearing or memory (pseudonatural occurences -- people with naturally strong hearing and memory do exist). Correctness of the name is paramount. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 15:43, 14 April 2009 (EDT)
          • Then I'd have to go with Acidic Blood. --Peter 15:46, 14 April 2009 (EDT)
            • Acidic blood matches Impenetrable skin.--Riddler 01:57, 15 April 2009 (EDT)
              • Agreed, though please see the discussion in the below thread about the possibility of it being a condition caused by the drug/CO2 combination that keeps the fugitives unconscious.--MiamiVolts (talk) 02:21, 15 April 2009 (EDT)

Acid Blood

no? -- Meteoritu 21:01, 14 April 2009

  • surprisingly i like it! --Peter 16:25, 14 April 2009 (EDT)
    • I do not mind this suggestion, as long as it doesn't go back to Mary's ability. --posted by Laughingdevilboy

Talk 17:08, 14 April 2009 (EDT)

      • I'd prefer the name "acid blood" or "acidic blood" also. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 23:35, 14 April 2009 (EDT)

Most useless ability ever

  • Think so? I literally cannot see any practical use for it :D i mean you could escape from a concrete cell possibly if you bled yourself to death... --Lolwut 17:17, 14 April 2009 (EDT)
  • Not to death. Just enough to get through the concrete. --BoomerDay 17:48, 14 April 2009 (EDT)
  • it still useless if your under combat or ecaping--Cj31094 19:31, 14 April 2009 (EDT)
  • It could've been a side-effect of her ability. We only saw her getting shot; maybe if she got the chance she would've done something that would've been more useful. --BardinessBoy 19:41, 14 April 2009 (EDT)
  • I'm sorry, i must be slow or something, but i have been looking at the comic, and most specifically the panel where Mary got shot. Which part of that panel even suggests the use of acid blood? If the blood WAS acidic, shouldn't there be some burning effect? or at the very least the "sheesh" or some other sounds to indicate that there was in fact some chemical reaction going on? The guy she fell on and had the blood over was also still, not like what you would expect for someone who is being burnt...
  • i didnt see it either --Cj31094 23:29, 14 April 2009 (EDT)
    • Make that 3 that don't see it. "You got some 'splaining to do!"--Anthony Gooch 23:44, 14 April 2009 (EDT)
      • There wasn't anything in the graphic novel that suggested it, as far as I could tell. It was in the iStory. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 00:05, 15 April 2009 (EDT)
        • Ah, I see I need to catch up on the iStories--Anthony Gooch 00:22, 15 April 2009 (EDT)

Ability or condition?

  • I favor "acidic blood" as well, but I would rather see this converted to a "medical condition" page... acidic blood can be caused by a number of things, and there is no way for us to be sure this is at all related to her ability unless a writer clarifies it for us. In fact, in this case, I think the most plausible explanation is a high concentration of CO2 in her system from whatever drug they were pumping into her through her nose to keep her unconscious. Scientifically, the condition/process of the blood becoming acidic is referred to as blood acidosis or often just acidosis. The state of the blood being acidic is called acidemia.--MiamiVolts (talk) 00:43, 15 April 2009 (EDT)
    • Sure, this type of thing could exist in reality...but don't you think that they were describing an ability rather than just a medical condition? I mean, if this happened in the online content for a show like The New Adventures of Old Christine or even Chuck, then I can see them describing a medical condition. But in a show where every other person has evolved abilities, don't you think that a woman with acidic blood also has an evolved ability? -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 00:58, 15 April 2009 (EDT)
      • Would the blood of someone with acidemia actually be able to eat through cloth and flesh the way Mary's blood is supposed to have done? Even if high CO2 levels made her blood so acidic, the fact that she could resist having her own blood dissolve her from the inside out implies that she has some other power (like acid resistance).--Theycallmeshockey 01:10, 15 April 2009 (EDT)
      • I definitely think Mary has an ability. I just don't think we know for sure what it is. The effects of long term exposure to whatever treatment is being given to those at Building 26 could be causing her blood acidity. Since drug treatments don't respond the same to everyone, Mary's body could have metabolized the acid in her blood for any number of reasons. In fact, the drug could be affecting Mary differently than everyone else because of her ability. I'll admit the acidity being an ability is a strong possibility given the nature of this show, but to me it's not confirmed.--MiamiVolts (talk) 01:44, 15 April 2009 (EDT)
        • I was thinking it was like Jean Grey as in the terms of that her flesh/blood is acidic maybe her power was acidity ? Gabriel Bishop 07:18, 15 April 2009 (EDT)
          • Her power could be acidity, but we don't normally go by what is possible but by what we know.--MiamiVolts (talk) 10:22, 15 April 2009 (EDT)
            • We know she has blood that is acidic. Do we know anything more than that? -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 15:32, 15 April 2009 (EDT)
              • The iStory said that the blood burned into flesh and sheets instantaneously, and we also know that Building 26 personnel have been administering her an unknown drug/gas through her nasal cavity for an unknown period of time. The instantaneous burning doesn't really tell us much about the acidity level as weak acids can burn rather quickly as well as strong ones depending on what they come in contact with. We also don't know the condition of the sheet and flesh after the burning. Since no fire was shown in the novel, we can assume they didn't mean the sheet was literally burning and just meant an acid burn (though nowhere in the novel or iStory does it call the blood acidic).--MiamiVolts (talk) 16:37, 15 April 2009 (EDT)
            • I think that it does suggest something about the pH level. We know it burns through the sheet straight through to the persons flesh. Now assuming that ph, 7 is neutral, anything above that is alkaline, we know it is 1-6. 5 and 6 are irritants and even 4 would struggle to burn though a sheet and then flesh. Then at the speeds we're talking about, I would assume 1 or 2, mabye bordering on 3 --IronyUTC CH 18:52, 15 April 2009 (EDT)
              • Some weak acids (pH close to 7), such as hydrofluoric acid, can act as fast as many strong acids (pH close to 1). See Wikipedia's articles on weak acids and corrosive substances, or if you would rather check out an official source, see this video from UC Berkeley. As a side note, blood in the human body is normally slightly basic, with an average pH of 7.4. Strong bases (pH close to 14) can be as corrosive as acid (the appropriate term is caustic if it's a base) to substances like sheets and skin.--MiamiVolts (talk) 19:19, 15 April 2009 (EDT)
                • What I'm going on is the fact that it burns through flesh. The cloth is irrelevant as it depends on a lot of factors. Hydrofloric acid, while does damage the skin, but namely the nervous system, and the burns are not painful to start, the impression from the istory that I got was that the acid was a clear burn that the guards could see instantly. As these are guards, I don't think they would be able to identify a burn like that from Hydrofloric acid as it doesn't make a noticable burn "mark", so to speak. As well as this it depends on what concentration of hydrofluric acid you are talking about, it could be a very weak concentration, or it could have been boiled, evaporated and collected thought alembic, then done again, except not boiling completely, which would leave a very, very strong concentration which coul easily brun thought flesh/sheets in an instant --IronyUTC CH 19:30, 15 April 2009 (EDT)
                  • Strong bases can burn through flesh just as well as strong acids. My point is that we don't know what we are dealing with. Yes, it's her blood, but that's all the story confirms. PS: The story is from Rachel's POV, we've no idea if the guard's noticed or not. But since she did, there must be some effect for her to notice... however, we've no indication what that was... it could be anything from the sheet and flesh dissolving, to the sheet and flesh fizzling, to the sheet dissolving and the flesh turning color.--MiamiVolts (talk) 19:43, 15 April 2009 (EDT)
                    • Breathe in, breathe out, now relax. I got a B at science but this is hurting my brain lol. Can you two please dum this down for those who have no idea what your talking out :) --posted by Laughingdevilboy

Talk 19:55, 15 April 2009 (EDT)

                      • Sure thing: Irony claims we know that the blood was strongly acidic... I claim we have no clue why the blood burned the sheet and flesh.--MiamiVolts (talk) 20:00, 15 April 2009 (EDT)
                        • Yeah, anyway ... Yes (about the base), but as this is acid blood, I'm assuming that the blood will be acidic, not alkaline as the power is "acidic blood". Also assuming the sheet isn't covered in some alkaline material, the acid shouldn't have any problem burning throught the cloth, as strands of molecular fibre in cloth are weaker, as it has been heavily processed and doesn't turn out like that naturally, and therefore is not adapted to do so. I'm assuming the flesh wouldn't fizz, because the acid would have to cause a chemical reaction to produce gas, namely CO2. But if that were to happen there would have to be some alkali on the persons body, and normally skin is slightly acidic (don't quote me on that, I think I can remember it). But, we also don't know what the cloth actually was, if the nose plug things kill some of the people it could be woven with silver to stop the body rotting and smelling (as athletles socks are), this would peoform as a layer which would block the skin, etc. And as its from Racheals point of view it could be wrong. For example, if you knew Meredith had pyrokinesis and you saw her realease fire, then you saw a body in the line of fire, you would assume the fire would burn through the cloth and then the flesh, this could simply be the case with Rachel, Rachel knows Mary has Acidic blood, she sees Mary get shot and the blood landing on the body, therefore she assumes that the blood has penetrated the cloth and burns the flesh --IronyUTC CH 20:02, 15 April 2009 (EDT)
                        • That's a rather circular argument because you're using the current name of "acidic blood" we arbitrarily decided on... nowhere does it state in the novel or iStory that the blood is acidic.--MiamiVolts (talk) 20:08, 15 April 2009 (EDT)
                      • Oh, I thought it did. Showed myself up there, if we don't know if the blood is acidic it could be any number of circustances. --IronyUTC CH 20:12, 15 April 2009 (EDT)
                        • If acidic doesn't fly, try corrosive, it doesn't have to be acid to be corrosive right? It would still say what she does, but since it doesn't say exactly what her blood is, it doesn't make it incorrect nor speculative. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 20:15, 15 April 2009 (EDT)
                          • Wow, I never thought of that, I have to hold my hands up, it is all my fault it says acid any way as that is what I took from the words. Your suggestion is way better. *holds hands up for forgiveness* --posted by Laughingdevilboy

Talk 20:19, 15 April 2009 (EDT)

                            • But doesn;t corrosion only relate to metals? --IronyUTC CH 20:20, 15 April 2009 (EDT)
                              • Merriam-Webster takes corrosion to corroding, which does use metal as an example, but doesn't limit to it. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 20:24, 15 April 2009 (EDT)
                          • Corrosive would be okay if guys want to rename it again, but I'm actually fine with calling it acidic blood since the blood seems to have acidic-like properties. However, I'm against saying that the blood is strongly acidic since we don't know whether it is basic, acidic, or something else.--MiamiVolts (talk) 20:25, 15 April 2009 (EDT)
                            • From wikipedia: Corrosion means the disintegration of a material into its constituent atoms due to chemical reactions with its surroundings. In the most common use of the word, this means a loss of electrons of metals reacting with water and oxygen. Weakening of iron due to oxidation of the iron atoms is a well-known example of electrochemical corrosion. This is commonly known as rusting. This type of damage typically produces oxide(s) and/or salt(s) of the original metal. Corrosion can also refer to other materials than metals, such as ceramics or polymers. Although in this context, the term degradation is more common. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 20:27, 15 April 2009 (EDT)
                              • Then I agree with either corrosive or acidic blood, either one is fine with me --IronyUTC CH 20:29, 15 April 2009 (EDT)
  • (I'm resetting the thread to one asterisk.) I don't mind the term "acidic". I agree with Miami, though, I don't think we can conclusively say that Mary's blood was "strongly acidic". -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 20:48, 15 April 2009 (EDT)
    • Hey RGS, I love how you reset it to 1 asterisk and then the conversation just stopped. lol. --mc_hammark 11:38, 5 September 2009 (EDT)

Whoa what?!

I never caught onto her ability while reading the graphic novel. Then I saw this page so I went back and reread it... and I'm still NOT catching on haha. I just don't see where her blood is burning through anything. --OutbackZack 11:53, 15 April 2009 (EDT)

  • It was in the IStory. Please read the above discussions, as they will explain. --posted by Laughingdevilboy

Talk 11:57, 15 April 2009 (EDT)

Classification

If we decide to keep this as an ability my problem is do we class this as an IStory ability or GN ability. When I created the page I put GN as it is shown in the GN and however it is never explained or shown as an ability. The IStory does explain it. I am not bothered either way, but thought I would raise the issue. --posted by Laughingdevilboy Talk 19:52, 15 April 2009 (EDT)

  • It would be a GN ability, because her blood appears in the novel and novels normally trump the iStory.--MiamiVolts (talk) 19:58, 15 April 2009 (EDT)

Talk 20:06, 15 April 2009 (EDT)

      • I placed it under Evolutions abilities because right now iStory abilities are being classified as Evolutions abilities (see Talk:Portal:Abilities‎#Powers from iStories for more on that discussion). Evolutions "trumps" GNs. But I'm also pretty convinced that the power wasn't really shown in the graphic novel. Sure, we see her blood in the novel, but we don't see the ability at work at all. Calling it a GN ability is confusing since it really was never demonstrated in the GN--hence all the confused people wondering what they missed (here and here, for instance). -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 20:41, 15 April 2009 (EDT)

Consensus check

I was asked to run a consensus check on this ability's name. I think it's a good idea. As outlined at here and piloted here, this consensus check will be a little different than the ones done in the past. Rather than "voting" for your favorite ability name, only sign your name under ability names that you oppose. You shouldn't place your name under ones that you just "don't like", but under names that you conclusively oppose. Not putting your signature doesn't mean you necessarily think the ability name is perfect, just that you're not going to stand in the way of the name being chosen. Of course, your opinion can (and should) be voiced along with your dissent. This can be done either under the ability name, or in a new section. Any name that is reasonably opposed by an editor will be considered out of the "running". The final ability name will be chosen from among the names that are not opposed. If all names are opposed (which I doubt will happen), the name will default to "Mary's ability".

Names are being culled from discussions I've seen on the wiki. If I missed one, feel free to add it. Remember, only sign your name if you oppose a name. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 21:01, 15 April 2009 (EDT)

  • Ryan, shouldn't the classification be a separate discussion from the naming?--MiamiVolts (talk) 23:06, 15 April 2009 (EDT)
    • Yeah, probably. I think I was under the impression that classifying it as a medical condition would mean changing the name. I'll split off the discussion so it's not part of the consensus check. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 00:19, 16 April 2009 (EDT)

Acid blood

  • Opposed --IronyUTC CH 21:06, 15 April 2009 (EDT) Her blood is not acid, it is acidic
  • Opposed. Her blood is not shown to be acid. --Crazylicious 22:51, 15 April 2009 (EDT)
  • Opposed. It's not known as to whether her blood is an acid.--MiamiVolts (talk) 23:12, 15 April 2009 (EDT)
  • This does not sound like an ability name to me, Opposed. --posted by Laughingdevilboy

Talk 14:55, 16 April 2009 (EDT) Acidic blood

  • Opposed. It still sounds too medical-y, rather than an ability. Blood can become Acidic naturally, i.e. without it changing your DNA (ppl with acidic blood wouldn't be on the list)--Peter

Blood acidity

Corrosive blood

Should be classified as a medical condition, not an ability

  • Opposed --IronyUTC CH 21:06, 15 April 2009 (EDT)
    • Are you still opposed to classifying it as a medical condition? If so, you need to say why or your opposition doesn't count.--MiamiVolts (talk) 22:42, 15 April 2009 (EDT)
  • Opposed, no reason why they would lock up someone with just a medical condition, and especially not if it burns through sheets. --Crazylicious 22:51, 15 April 2009 (EDT)
    • Crazylicious, the drug/gas they gave Mary could be causing the condition. We weren't suggesting she had a medical condition beforehand. But let's not forget that they applied the procedure on Daphne, and she was dying from having been shot.--MiamiVolts (talk) 22:59, 15 April 2009 (EDT)
      • Alright, then, but wouldn't everyone (the captives, I mean) have the same condition, then? --Crazylicious 23:34, 15 April 2009 (EDT)
        • Not necessarily, because not everyone responds to drugs the same way. Her ability may have had some reaction to the drug treatment, or she could just naturally develop a reaction to the drug. Alternatively, this could be a much larger problem with the drug that we are just learning about. It could be a temporary condition that reverts after a short while of being off the drug.--MiamiVolts (talk) 23:59, 15 April 2009 (EDT)
  • Opposed, because I believe this is an ability or by-product not a medical condition. --posted by Laughingdevilboy

Talk 15:17, 16 April 2009 (EDT)

    • How do you know it is an ability or a by-product, LDB? BTW, if it's a by-product of Mary's ability, it should not be the name for her ability. Personal beliefs need to backed up or they don't count.--MiamiVolts (talk) 15:20, 16 April 2009 (EDT)
      • How do you know its a medical condition Miami ?.I ppose because its HEROES and she's a evolved human snd thats why they have captured her other wise the artist would have drawn a ability. If not then its a waste of time dont you think ? Gabriel Bishop 15:24, 16 April 2009 (EDT)
        • Just cause this is Heroes, everything out of the ordinary doesn't have to be due to an ability. I think saying it is an ability is leaping to that conclusion when there is a much simpler explanation. And although we don't know it's only a medical condition, it would always be considered one regardless of whether her ability is in play or not.--MiamiVolts (talk) 15:42, 16 April 2009 (EDT)
        • I think the matter is, how acid/corrosive is her blood? If it burned through things like Leonard Cushing's acid secretion, then it's definitely an ability for me. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 15:32, 16 April 2009 (EDT)
          • Her blood could be extremely corrosive due to a medical condition, but only corrosive when exposed to air. Saying that the degree of corrosivity defines her ability isn't logical, imho.--MiamiVolts (talk) 15:42, 16 April 2009 (EDT)
          • Is there any way someone could email the artist or anyone from this GN and ask them what they were trying to do? Seems to me it would be much easier and quicker than us arguing. --Peter 15:35, 16 April 2009 (EDT)
            • You can ask Ryan to try and contact Tom Inkel, the writer for the iStory, but it will likely take a while for a response as he can only contact him through someone else.--MiamiVolts (talk) 15:42, 16 April 2009 (EDT)
              • How do you know its a medical condition? I think personally we will never agree, Miami you will always say its a medical condition (which is a fair point) and I will always say its an ability (which is a fair point) is there a middle? Because until we find out more this wont be resolved. --posted by Laughingdevilboy

Talk 15:51, 16 April 2009 (EDT)

                • I have to agree with LDB .Miami why are you trying to prove its a medical condition.It could be a ability or a medical condition but the truth is we havent got much to prove its either of them so i feel we should wait till what Ryan says :) Gabriel Bishop 15:54, 16 April 2009 (EDT)
  • I asked Ryan to find out. Hopefully someone (anyone) can shed some light on this ability (or condition). Stay patient. --Peter 15:56, 16 April 2009 (EDT)
    • This can be argued the other way. Gabriel Bishop, why are you trying to prove it's an ability? I do agree with Miami about the fact that just because it is Heroes it doesn't mean it haas to be an ability. Just because the writers day her blood is acidic doesn't mean it is an ability. --IronyUTC CH 15:59, 16 April 2009 (EDT)
    • Actually thats my opinion . While Miami trying to prove that he's right ! :) Gabriel Bishop 16:02, 16 April 2009 (EDT)
      • Yes, I'm trying to prove my point. That is how trying to find a consensus works. I'm saying I don't know whether or not Mary has an ability, so we shouldn't have a page for it. Because we don't know whether her blood burning is a temporary condition caused by the drug/gas treatment she received, some other medical disease, her ability, or more than one of the above. But I think it will always be considered a medical condition regardless of whether her ability is totally responsible or whether it isn't responsible at all. Similarly, Niki would always be considered as having MPD regardless of whether her ability was causing her condition or not.--MiamiVolts (talk) 16:49, 16 April 2009 (EDT)
        • I agree with you Miami should we delete this page until further notice ? Gabriel Bishop 16:52, 16 April 2009 (EDT)
          • I have been thinking, I think we should just include this information on her page and delete this page as like you say Miami we can't say its either, though it does seem more like a medical condition, but I remain stubborn lol. What do you think, I think this could be the best option until we learn more.--posted by Laughingdevilboy

Talk 16:53, 16 April 2009 (EDT)

            • We should wait until RGS gets the reply from the writers --IronyUTC CH 16:54, 16 April 2009 (EDT)
              • If we cannot agree that this is a medical condition, then I think we should move the page to the creator's userspace until we know for sure. I don't think we will get an answer soon. The only note about the burning blood comes from the iStory, so only Tom will be able to provide an answer.--MiamiVolts (talk) 17:03, 16 April 2009 (EDT)

Talk 17:06, 16 April 2009 (EDT) that is a good decision we should wait im so confused about this , has anyone asked about the other abilities like gordon's , linda's mermaid and crazt grin man"s , i wish the writers clarify abilities and also why don't they use the abilities on assignment tracker map?--Zoga78 03:00, 17 April 2009 (EDT)

  • If no-one disagrees today, I will move this into my user space until we get more information. --posted by Laughingdevilboy

Talk 05:51, 17 April 2009 (EDT)

Conclusive confirmation

From Bill Hooper:

Mary's power is acidic blood. It can burn through stuff. That panel had a lot of information so it was hard to sell that piece of it.

Here's what I wrote in the script: "Mary, who was getting off her bed right behind Rachel – gets drilled with 3 bullets in the chest (from Agent Harper's gun). Blood sprays out from Mary, landing on a special in the bed next to her – the blood burning through that special's clothing and skin."

Thanks, Bill! You rock! :) -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 08:48, 17 April 2009 (EDT)

  • No Ryan, you rock! --Peter 11:06, 17 April 2009 (EDT)
    • Wow, very surprising. Thanks Bill!--MiamiVolts (talk) 11:31, 17 April 2009 (EDT)

Not so useless

Just had a thought. Many people think that this would be kind of a useless ability, but wouldn't it protect you from being infected, through blood at least. --mc_hammark 18:36, 2 March 2010 (EST)

  • Perhaps. All of the other cells in her body must have some sort of resistance though, maybe a virus could emulate that?--PJDEP - Talk - Polls and Opinions 20:01, 2 March 2010 (EST)