Talk:Alchemy

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Ability Naming Conventions
The following sources are used for determining evolved human ability names, in order:
1. Canon Sources Episodes
Webisodes,
Graphic Novels,
iStories,
Heroes Evolutions
3. Secondary Sources Episode commentary,
Interviews,
Heroes: Survival
4. Common names for abilities Names from other works
5. Descriptions of abilities Descriptions
6. Possessor's name If no non-speculative
description is possible

Note: The highlighted row represents the level of the source used to determine alchemy's name.
Source/Explanation
This ability has been explicitly named "alchemy" in From the Files of Primatech, Part 1.


Description

Simple fact people, in the first line, it says he can change the "chemical composition", but you can't create gold by changing the chemical composition, that would be the elemental composition, and even that definition seems to lack something, by all means changing one element to another IS alchemy, but it's also a nuclear reaction.

Name

Whoever added this page, it is WAY too early to give it a name. All we saw was a quick change to gold. It could be anything beyond that. --Riddler 22:11, 24 September 2007 (EDT)

  • Anddddd if you wanna get technical, what we saw was Elemental transmutation.--Riddler 22:13, 24 September 2007 (EDT)
    • Agree, I'm not sure I would identify the power as alchemy quite yet. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 22:39, 24 September 2007 (EDT)
      • Alchemy? Wow, I was about to come and suggest Elemental Transmutation. "The ability to alter chemical elements, changing them from one substance to another by rearranging the atomic structure". He changed that sliver spoon into gold, that screams Elemental Transmutation.--The Empath 22:54, 24 September 2007 (EDT)
        • "IF" this powers ends up 'only' being the ability to transmute metal into gold, then that specific action is known as Chrysopoeia. Alchemy is a common term used for it also, but Alchemy is a broad general term that includes many other disciplines besides gold transmutation. It's too early to define this one. Need more epis. --HiroDynoSlayer (talk) 09/24/2007 23:31 (EST)

I don't think Alchemy is too bad a name for now. Perhaps just Transmutation is sufficient, but let's not get into another Bliss and Horror over this. We'll just use a fitting name for being able to turn a spoon into gold. --Piemanmoo 01:37, 25 September 2007 (EDT)

  • Although it is the first thing I thought of as well, alchemy is defiantly not the right name, it would be like calling a power "chemistry" or "spiritualism". "The Midas Touch" is the second thing I thought of, but I don't think that is right ether. "Aurification" or "transmutation" could work. I do like having info on the powers as soon as possible but I think it needs a better name. -Lөvөl 02:36, 25 September 2007 (EDT)
    • We are discussing this over on Bob's talk page. "transmutation" is too broad, imho, aurification is my preference.--MiamiVolts (talk) 02:51, 25 September 2007 (EDT)
      • Aurification sounds fine. Another alternative that is also specific to transmuting metal into gold is Chrysopoeia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysopoeia The plus-side of Aurification though, is that Au is the chemical symbol for 'Gold', so it will be more easily recognized. --HiroDynoSlayer (talk) 09/25/2007 09:47 (EST)
        • "Aurification" rings no bells whatsoever with me. Is there a source for that term, or did we make it up from whole cloth? Besides that, we really don't know if he's limited to just converting "base" metals into gold or can cause a broader range of transformations. I suspect that "aurification" may be too limiting. --Ted C 09:49, 25 September 2007 (EDT)

I just tossed this up really quick to get some information up about the new power, and "Alchemy" was the first term that came to mind. I actually rather agree with "Elemental transmutation" as a name for it. --Ted C 09:48, 25 September 2007 (EDT)

1. to cause to appear golden; gild
2. to transmute into gold. --HiroDynoSlayer (talk) 09/25/2007 10:49 (EST)
    • What's wrong with Midas touch? I think that name is simpler. Aurification is difficult to pronounce. --Hero!(talk)(contribs) 20:17, 27 September 2007 (EDT)
      • Midas had no control over what got turned into gold. Bob has control over his power. I pronounce Aurification as "our-if-e-kate-tion"--it's not that hard.--MiamiVolts (talk) 21:00, 27 September 2007 (EDT)
        • It's pretty much like saying, 'Glorification'; without the 'GL'. --HiroDynoSlayer (talk) 09/28/2007 07:15 (EST)

In the latest CBR Q&A, Joe Pokaski and Aron Coleite called the power "alchemy". Q: "Can he turn metals in to more than just Gold, or shall we be nicknaming him 'Midas' for the rest of the season?" A: "We'll be learning about Bob's connection to everyone soon enough. And keep your eye out for some more alchemy than just gold." Can't wait. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 16:38, 1 October 2007 (EDT)

  • Sounds good enough to change the name of the power then. "Alchemy" is more generic and also applies to exactly what we've observed so far so we don't have to worry about it spoiling anything. (Admin 16:57, 1 October 2007 (EDT))
    • It's not my favorite name, but it works. Unless some kind of name is given in an episode, we should stick with alchemy. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 17:15, 1 October 2007 (EDT)
      • should the description be expanded to more generically explain 'alchemy' which does more than just transmuting to gold? --HiroDynoSlayer (talk) 10/1/2007 17:58 (EST)
        • My first instinct is vindicated! Woot! --Ted C 10:03, 2 October 2007 (EDT)

-- I find this name to be somewhat ignorant. Alchemy had very little to do with making gold; it was a semi-scientific, semi-religious philosophy which used various 'operations' as physical expressions of mental refinement. The idea was to turn the 'lead' of a mortal, unenlightened soul into the 'gold' of an enlightened, immortal soul.

          • It's how the ability was mentioned. Plus it was also confirmed that it can do more than turn things to gold. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 19:08, 5 November 2009 (EST)

On the Activating Evolution site Wiki, this ability is coined "Midakinesis". However, the term seems to be completely made up since it has no real life reference. Chrisyu357 05:46, 20 October 2007 (EDT)

  • Yeah, that site has a lot of fan contributions, so the information it contains cannot be considered canon. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 11:14, 20 October 2007 (EDT)
  • That site is full of spam, garbage, and misinformation. I'm surprised people even still bother to go there at all. (Admin 11:20, 20 October 2007 (EDT))

Limits

While I understand the reluctance to define limits that are inaccurate, I would argue that Bob has shown the ability to transmute a small object from mundane metal into gold. This doesn't mean that he can't transmute a larger object, only that he hasn't demonstrated the ability to do so. Given that what he's already done has an energy requirement comparable to hundreds of megatons worth of nuclear weapons detonating at once, I feel okay erring on the conservative side with regard to his ability. That said, the limits section still reads well. --Ted C 17:05, 25 September 2007 (EDT)

  • Thanks, I've learned from the best, Ted. :) I want to make sure that we're just not jumping to any conclusions about the power. I took out any references to the spoon being steel (and his ability to change steel) simply because the spoon could have been a number of different metals. In fact, when I lived in Albania, most people used real silver--go figure. I also changed the "small objects" because we have no idea what he's capable of. He did say he's got his own private Fort Knox, so I suspect he has at least tried (and probably succeeded) in changing objects on a large scale. But in any case, I just felt it was reading that he could only change small objects, which I'm sure wasn't the intention. I'd much rather side with caution and generalizations where we have unknowns. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 17:10, 25 September 2007 (EDT)
    • Ryan said, "In fact, when I lived in Albania", .....Dita e Mere! --HiroDynoSlayer (talk) 09/25/2007 18:26 (EST)
      • Dita e mirë edhe ty, shoku im! ... I lived there for three years. Most intense time of my life. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 22:17, 25 September 2007 (EDT)

Deletion until further info?

I think we should just delete the page. I don't think the creators would just make his power Aurification but Alchemy is too general. Until further info on the power i think we should delete the page all together, and put info on his power on his actualy page. We did the same thing for Molly after The Hard Part and we're doing it for Maya. Jason Garrick 22:09, 25 September 2007 (EDT)

I see this ability as one that Bob uses in the background to finance operations for the Company, not one where Mohinder says "Hey Bob, I need some more Cash" and Bob goes "Right-o, there, Doctor Soo-resh, here ya go" and transmutes some forks. It'll be in the background - so we might have all the detail we'll have for a while. I'd say we should leave the article as is - acknowledging that it can always be moved or reworked. The difference between Bob and Maya is that Bob has an ability which he consciously activated in a controlled fashion. Maya's ability is deadly when uncontrolled, but how it causes death is unknown. We know what this power does, and we have a specific example of the power in action. It's good, for now. No need to delete. ZZ 23:38, 25 September 2007 (EDT)

I agree with deleting this page altogether. I see someone has posted a resource stating that Bob is going to use more alchemy in the future, but this doesn't mean his power is alchemy, for all we know the people in this resource are just as confused as we are and calling his power alchemy. Alchemy was more than just turning things into gold, there were many other aspects to it (such as an all-curing medicine). Turning metals into gold was just one of the goals of the ancient alchemists. I proposed Aurification in the first place on here, and all we've seen him do so far is turn a spoon into gold. He hasn't shown he can do other alchemistic things in the show, so why go ahead and call it Alchemy? I am not saying his ability is ultimately just Aurification, but for now, its his only known power. --Pred 0212 15:33, 2 October 2007 (EDT)

  • The resource being referenced was an interview with the writers/producers. :) The current name Alchemy satisfies our naming conventions since they used that term to describe his powers. (Admin 15:38, 2 October 2007 (EDT))
    • Just to add to that: the name is acceptable because it was given to us, but please note that the page itself and Bob's page are both clear that the only manifestation of "alchemy" to date is turning metal objects into gold. The name isn't really speculative (while it could be broader than what we've seen, it isn't necessarily broader), and it was used by the creators of the show to describe his ability. Now, if they'd called it "Greta Garbo Manipulation", then we'd probably have a good case for ignoring them, but since "alchemy" is an acceptable (if not currently the best, based only on what we've seen to date) description, we're stuck with it.--Hardvice (talk) 16:24, 2 October 2007 (EDT)
      • Bah...I still don't agree, but who's to argue with the producers. We'll just have to see if he can do anything else I guess.--Pred 0212 00:56, 3 October 2007 (EDT)
        • I agree, it's not the best name for what we've seen, and probably not the best name even if he can transmute stuff into other substances. But then again, I think "induced radioactivity" is a pretty bad name (he doesn't seem to induce radioactive properties in things--he seems to project radiation fy'reir called, and will expect to find them labeled accordingly.--Hardvice (talk) 01:40, 3 October 2007 (EDT)

Worrying about other pages

-No offense guys/girls, but I think we all need to be contributing to adding Four Months Later and the stubs of season one info in all the characters and editing Season two info into the characters except for like Peter and Janice who had a minute or no screen time. I'm going to watch FML now again and try to add stuff. I think that is more important than what to call Bob's power because he's only used it once. :l (Not to put anyone on defense).Jason Garrick 22:12, 25 September 2007 (EDT)

Eureka

  • Not sure if anyone watches Eureka, but amusingly enough this week's episode was essentially about a phenomenon that was converting any iron it came in contact with into gold. Good timing. :) (Admin 21:03, 27 September 2007 (EDT))
    • Interestingly enough, next week's Heroes episode is Lizards and Bionic Woman's is Birds, both animal named episodes airing the same week. Nice timing there too. :)--MiamiVolts (talk) 21:28, 27 September 2007 (EDT)
      • Also, the series finale of Strangers with Candy aired on October 20, 2000, exactly six years and 360 days before The Kindness of Strangers airs. Coincidence? ... :) -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 21:38, 27 September 2007 (EDT)
        • Too many coincidences!! *brain short circuits* lol. Jason Garrick 15:54, 30 September 2007 (EDT)

Out of Time

I thought for sure Bob was going to turn the wooden door to steel or something while Niki was punching it. Jason Garrick 20:58, 6 November 2007 (EST)

  • And when he grabbed the door to do so, here comes a yank through the door and a stab with a syringe. --AnotherNella 19:11, 19 November 2007 (EST)

What a rip-off!

I thought we were going to see some more alchemy! Now we have to wait until Volume 3 for the King of Bling to show off his powers? --Piemanmoo 02:47, 4 December 2007 (EST)

  • Well, if there are any more graphic novels it could be sooner.--MiamiVolts (talk) 02:54, 4 December 2007 (EST)
    • yea im kinda ticked too... i was at least hoping he would give some gold to Monica.--.Vault (talk) 20:31, 4 December 2007 (EST)
    • Good call Miami.--Bob (talk) 13:31, 8 January 2008 (EST)
      • Thanks, though I'm still hoping to see the ability used to turn someone or something into a metal other than gold, as the writers in "Behind the Eclipse" have claimed.--MiamiVolts (talk) 13:44, 8 January 2008 (EST)

Totally Gold?

In The Golden Goose, Bob couldn't possibly have turned Hampton "Goose" Connolly into pure gold because that would've increased his mass by 19 times, and those guys lifting that stretcher are not strong enough to heft well over a metric ton of weight, not unless they all had super strength themselves.--Cheapside 15:58, 20 January 2008 (EST)

  • ...which is not out of the realm of possibility when you're talking about people who work for the Company... But who is to say that Bob can't turn things into a gold which is lighter than that to which we're accustomed here in reality? -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 16:39, 20 January 2008 (EST)
    • Except that gold is an element, it has to possess a certain number of protons, neutrons and electrons to be gold, if it possessed less, and had less mass because of it, than it could not be gold, it would be another element entirely.--Cheapside 10:21, 21 January 2008 (EST)
      • I agree with Cheapside; perhaps though, Bob turned him into a lighter than normal gold alloy...or alumnium coated with gold, which wouldn't be as heavy. And instead of super strength, one of the Company men could have a mass-alteration ability that enables him to make things lighter than normal. A number of things are possible, and I wouldn't mind a note saying that how the lifting was performed is unclear.--MiamiVolts (talk) 10:33, 21 January 2008 (EST)
        • I think it's just another instance where you have to suspend disbelief. Plenty of things in Heroes violate the laws of physics and this is most likely just one of them. (Admin 10:38, 21 January 2008 (EST))
  • He could of made him hollow? Like a easter-egg of gold? --Rbfskywalker 14:47, 15 March 2008 (EDT)
    • It's just a plot hole. Let it be. --Lolwut 04:03, 13 March 2009 (EDT)

Update Note?

“In an earlier BEHIND THE ECLIPSE, you said Bob would be turning objects into things other than gold, but so far everything has been coming up gold. Was the original idea to allow him to do other stuff and because of some event it was just decided to be just gold?” Originally, Bob was going to turn a wood door into steel to stop a rampaging Niki in the episode “Out of Time,” but the effect looked, well, like crap, so it was cut. But we had every intention of making Bob more than just an alchemist. [1] I forgive them :] - Cael 21:38, 30 September 2008 (EDT)

Such Potential...

It may just be me but if Bob could turn objects into other materials besides gold, he would have had by far the best ability out there, just imagine if he could turn someone completely into oxygen! It would help people breathe better and create less space in our world! Anyways I just was kinda bummed to find out he was ONLY gold... kinda sucks. Especially because that would mean Bob can alter the Protons within elements and his daughter can alter the electrons. I feel like something went terribly wrong season 2 and they couldn't express Bob like they should have.

And by the way isn't gold a fairly soft metal... isn't that why most "gold" jewelry some sort of alloy, so it stays strong? I feel like there was more to his ability that the writers and producers didn't include us in on, and for that, I am bummed...--Pbmarcano 19:25, 13 October 2008 (EDT)

  • In a CBR interview, the writers said that in the scene where Maury controls Niki, Bob would transmute a wooden door to steel, but they couldn't make the effect work.--Referos 19:44, 13 October 2008 (EDT)
    • Well, since Sylar now has that ability, he could use it to do something new; but to me, it doesn't look like that will happen anytime soon.--MiamiVolts (talk) 20:39, 13 October 2008 (EDT)

Chrysopoeia

Wikipedia has a page called chrysopoeia, and since what Bob is techinically doing is turning things to gold, I suggest that we should perhaps rename his ability. Alchemy covers many different aspects of the science-magic realm, but chrysopoeia specifically refers to the gold aspect of it.--(P)uerto (R)ican (K)nock(O)ut 21:06, 5 February 2009 (EST)

  • Sounds like a great name, but the name 'Alchemy' has been used in an interview, and trumps names from Wikipedia. Sorry 'bout that. --Crazylicious 21:51, 5 February 2009 (EST)
    • We aren't wikipedia, and I don't think that use in an interview means we should use the inproper name for an ability. I just don't know.--(P)uerto (R)ican (K)nock(O)ut 22:07, 5 February 2009 (EST)
      • Who says "alchemy" is an improper name? And why shouldn't we use it if the writers and producers use it? -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 22:33, 5 February 2009 (EST)
        • I'm just saying that alchemy is very broad, and covers many alchemic subjects, not just chrysopoeia. That's why it doesn't seem proper. --Oxico 20:02, 7 February 2009 (EST)

Limits (2)

In the "limits" sections, it says that he has not been shown to transform gases or liquids into gold, but the first time we saw him use his power, the spoon had soup on it that also turned to gold... doesn't soup count as a liquid? Ok, so maybe he can't transform large quantities of liquids, we haven't seen yet, but we have seen some liquid traansformed, I think it should be included. --Skullman1392 13:45, 28 March 2009 (EDT)

  • Was there soup in it? I'll have to watch it again to believe that. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 15:27, 28 March 2009 (EDT)
    • I believe it was soup...plus you can see it when you look at the lead image.--Skullman1392 17:53, 28 March 2009 (EDT)
      • Bob was drinking tea, not eating soup. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 18:06, 28 March 2009 (EDT)
        • oh ok, I thought it was soup, sorry for the pointless confusion there :D --Skullman1392 18:12, 28 March 2009 (EDT)

From the Files of Primatech, Part 7

"Gold is a great conductor of electricity..." Does this mean Bob is made of gold? --Boycool Two little mice fell in a bucket of cream. The first mouse quickly gave up and drowned. The second mouse wouldn't quit. He struggled so hard that eventually he churned that cream into butter and crawled out. Amen. 08:53, 16 May 2010 (EDT)