Talk:Alternate Timelines

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Please help fully flesh out the alternate timelines. Focus on events which are actually shown in the show which demonstrate a difference among the timelines (or an unusual similarity.) No need to document things which do not relate strongly to the differences.

Events that can be likely concluded based on other timelines may be entered, but avoid speculation, or note when the presence of an event in another timeline is uncertain. Due to the presence of Candace and her power, consider that things seen may really involve use of this power, such as the painting of "Nathan in the White House."

If you have a correction which may be controversial, be sure to document why you thought the original note was incorrect here in the talk page.--Bradtem 20:43, 8 May 2007 (EDT)

Need for this page

We have Time travel (theory), Dark Future and Timeline:Possible Futures to explain this. Is this page necessary? Also, some of the explanations don't make sense. Reversing time for the bullet didn't bring the whole timeline backwards, just the bullet and Hope. Otherwise, the event wouldn't have happened. If this is the case, everytime he stops time, that's a new timeline. Not the case.--Bob 20:44, 8 May 2007 (EDT)

Understood. I did not see the Possible Futures page for which I apologize. There's a great deal of new detail in this new page I put forward, so I think the right approach might be to attempt to merge. I don't have a problem with eliminating the 1-second jumps for the bullet and second hand as timelines, though I think to be consistent they probably are (just minor.)--Bradtem 20:47, 8 May 2007 (EDT)

  • Like I put on your talk page, these two should not be merged. The timeline is a layout of events that were on screen. This page attempts to explain everything. This is more suitable for the Time travel (theory) page. The timeline is, again, not needed to show every single change to the timeline. The possible futures is ones that have been displayed in canon. Yours attempts to do something I tried to do in a picture (see Image:Timeline.png). Needless to say, it's a concept best tackled on a theory page, not a timeline.--Bob 20:50, 8 May 2007 (EDT)
    • My goal is not to advance a theory, but rather to document what things occur differently because of Hiro's trips back in time. I don't believe it a theoretical proposition to say that some things occur differently. While there are theories of just what is behind the time travel, and how it works, there is no question that at one point we see, for example, Hiro in the diner when Charlie is killed, and at another point he is on his way back from Tokyo. Is there dispute about this? I don't want to argue whether it's alternate realities, or changing the past, or whatever other theory is out there, just document what's different.--Bradtem 20:54, 8 May 2007 (EDT)
      • Understood. Again, it's not the nature of a timeline to try to hash out the entire possible spectrum of timelines that have/will occur. The reason for the Possible Futures timeline was for the instances that occurred on air (Don't Look Back, Five Years Gone). It's noted enough in the instances that Hiro travels back in time that he changes the timeline. So again, the purpose of this article is more along the lines of the Time travel theory page than the timeline, simply because it helps explain the theory, not so much to theorize.--Bob 20:58, 8 May 2007 (EDT)
        • Hmm. This is all stuff which occurs twice or more in the show. I tried to not include anything not seen on screen (or reasonably concluded from it, such as Sylar does not kill Claire -> Sylar does not heal.) It could be moved into a theory page if you desire, but once again, I think I'm very clear on the difference between speculative theory and what is actually seen on screen and I very much tried to make this page be in the latter category. It's stuff from canon, there to help you understand whatever time travel theory you prefer, rather than advocacy of a particular theory.--Bradtem 21:09, 8 May 2007 (EDT)
          • The more I read this page, the less I like it. I mean, sure, it has some stuff from episodes, but everything else seems like pure speculation. Heroe!(talk) (contribs) Random Page! 21:11, 8 May 2007 (EDT)
          • Again, I understand the concept behind it. Yes, you used canon source. There's a difference between merely replicating the story told on screen (such as a timeline) and this article (using speculation to explain what happened between those events). In simple terms, this article connects the dots. No, it does not propose any particular theory, which is why it should go on that page. It helps explain the theories by demonstrating the changes that occurred in the sequence of time.--Bob 21:15, 8 May 2007 (EDT)
            • Well, I remain curious what on the page folks are classing as speculative. But I don't want to have a fight, so if it makes sense I will recreate the page as an adjunct of the TT(Theory) page with a different title. How does that feel? But again, I was hoping I was not listing events which were in dispute, and if you think some events are in dispute I would be pleased to get a list of them.--Bradtem 21:19, 8 May 2007 (EDT)
              • I'd help explain in depth a little more, but I'm studying for finals right now. My suggestion was to append it to Time travel (theory) page as a section with not as much narrative as this page, just to show that when one action occurred (mainly a shift backwards in time) how it affected the future outcome. So on the theory page, just add a section that says "Effects of Time Travel" and list out the main events that changed the timeline (not the freezes or lapses, these changes in time don't involve folding time but manipulating it, understood?). I'm a nerd when it comes to time theory, so that's why I'm picky about it. Any other questions, just leave me a message on my talk page. Thanks.--Bob 21:23, 8 May 2007 (EDT)

How to move this page

Ok, since some people seem to feel there is speculation on this page (I sense some historical debate I'm unaware of here) I am happy to move it to a different sort of page. The suggestion is to add it to the Time Travel (Theory) page but I want to avoid people putting theory into the page (and am OK with suggestions to remove lines of my own that are overly speculative rather than canonical.) My goal is to document, in one place "what has been changed" as a resource for those attempting to understand the role of Hiro's time travel in the show.

Heroes, as a show steeped in mystery as well as Fantasy, is of course a source of much speculation and clues. My view is that the good role of a Wiki is to document what is seen in canon (along with external sources such as writer interviews and occasionally real science) so that people can better understand the show, and make up their own minds about their own theories and speculations (which can go in speculation pages.) Thus it's appropriate for those who have theories to document the clues they see that drive their speculation without musing on the speculative parts themselves.

My goal is that each line shows something t hat can be reasonably concluded to have changed. One time we saw Charlie killed while Hiro was in the bathroom. Later we saw Charlie killed and Hiro was on his way back from Tokyo. That sort of thing. I notice that Bob put a theory tag on the page. Is that sufficient, or is it perhaps sufficient with a rename?--Bradtem 21:48, 8 May 2007 (EDT)

AFD

This page shouldn't be deleted but moved in the talk page of Timeline:Possible Futures.