Talk:Catalyst

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Why is a mystical glowing ball of light? --Hero!(talk)(contribs) 14:06, 9 December 2008 (EST)

  • you mean this... Catalyst2.jpg...its the container of the formula...--NiveKJ13 (talk2me) 14:09, 9 December 2008 (EST)
    • Doubt he meant that, and all that was was a vat of formula that Arthur added it to. He still had it as evidenced when he was killed by Peter and Sylar and the catalyst died with him. I think he meant why did each time it appeared did it appear as light like that. That's a good question as even Ishi called it the light.--WarGrowlmon18 14:27, 9 December 2008 (EST)
  • What I mean is, the catalyst is a magical ball of light. --Hero!(talk)(contribs) 14:56, 9 December 2008 (EST)
  • I dont really know. But what I think is, its some kind of Aura...--NiveKJ13 (talk2me) 15:24, 9 December 2008 (EST)
  • Doesn't the glow remind anybody else of the eclipse? The eclipse was required to give everyone their powers, so maybe "the light" duplicates whatever the eclipse does.

Categorize

This should be categorized as an ability, and the articles on Ishi and Claire and Hiro and Arthur should all be updated to include "Catalyst (Acquired)" in their profiles. Maybe the title should be changed to "Catalyst Possession" or something, that sounds more like the name of an ability. If it weren't an ability, I don't think Arthur could have "stolen" it; his power is Ability Theft, not Ability and Catalyst Theft. "Catalyst Possession is the ability to perfect the incomplete formula for synthetic abilities, and also to voluntarily transfer Catalyst Possession to another individual."

Owned by

"Owned by:" should refer to who owns it, not who possesses it. That's how we did it on D.L.'s medal of valor, Hope's bag, Mohinder's cocoons, string web, and The Company's tracking systems.

We could change it to "Possessed by:", but that mostly be redundant to "Current status:". - Josh (talk/contribs) 15:44, 9 December 2008 (EST)

If we list the catalyst, we should use the term the show gave us: the catalyst would be found in a human host, ergo it's "hosted by". Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 16:01, 9 December 2008 (EST)

Thieves do not own the things they steal. Arthur did not own the catalyst, just like Hype Wilson's gang does not own D.L.'s medal of valor. For similar reasons, the Primm police do not own Hope's bag, the Company does not own Mohinder's cocoons, and Future Matt does not own Future Hiro's string web. This is our standard practice. - Josh (talk/contribs) 14:24, 26 December 2008 (EST)

  • Actually Monica did retrive the medal. They kept the backpack near her during the fire and if you look closly when she runs out of the bulding she's carrying it.
  • It should be changed to 'hosted by,' as per your points and Intuitive Empath's comment above. I'll do so now. Not sure how to do so, other than keeping Owned and putting a rider next to it saying 'hosted.' --Stevehim 14:33, 26 December 2008 (EST)
  • Why does everybody keep making this page inconsistent with the others? - Josh (talk/contribs) 17:49, 4 March 2009 (EST)

Claire

  • Claire is clearly a former possessor of the catalyst, but then it disappeared because if the time errors. But still, Claire did possessed it, so she should be listed as "formerly" possessor.--NiveKJ13 (talk2me) 16:17, 9 December 2008 (EST)
    • Not really, she was assumed to be the catalyst, the way things were shown, it's clear she never hosted the catalyst. Sylar's comment of her being different from other evolved humans may have nothing to do with the catalyst. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 16:53, 9 December 2008 (EST)
    • But she still did, in a different timeline. If Claire and Hiro didn't manage to comeback in time and stop Noah from making Claire become the host, then Claire ends up becoming the carrier of the catalyst. This means in a different timeline, which is the timeline the episodes are taking place, Claire did become the catalyst, but because of some errors, ie. Being passed on or time butterfly effects, it made her a former carrier of it.
    • And as I can remember Sylar called Claire, different and special because of the catalyst being in her body. In conclusion, Claire did become a carrier of the catlyst, but it had been changed. But in the end, she is still a "former" owner of the catalyst.--NiveKJ13 (talk2me) 17:29, 9 December 2008 (EST)
The timeline taking place in the previous episodes, is the timeline where Claire became the catalyst.--NiveKJ13 (talk2me) 17:32, 9 December 2008 (EST)
I get your point, I do, but try to see where I'm coming from. Let's take Hiro's time travel to save Charlie for example. According to Charlie, she got a phrase book, we don't know from who, then Hiro goes to the past and gives her the phrase book he knew she'd get. Hiro going to the past and trying to alter it just made a change he already knew that was going to happen, kinda like a self-fulfilling cycle. Claire was never the catalyst because when she was a baby, her future self and Hiro's future self came and their actions didn't change history, just caused an effect which resulted on their own timeline. Had they not intervened, then Claire would have been the catalyst. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 17:43, 9 December 2008 (EST)
Also remember Hiro's accidental trip to 1671 where he met Kensei/Adam and where Yaeko declares that Hiro was the real Kensei. By teleporting to the past, he participated in history, not changing it. So far on Heroes we've learned that travelling to the past doesn't necessarily stop events from happening (although it does in some cases). I believe that Hiro had the catalyst all along. Mike 18:09, 9 December 2008 (EST)
Technically, between 1991 and 2007, the catalyst didn't exist, because it went from one time to another via Arthur. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 18:24, 9 December 2008 (EST)
  • Time travelling is a difficult thing to understand. But when we base it on what the characters said:

1.Claire herself said she's the catalyst.
2.Angela believes Claire is the catalyst.
3.Arthur says that Claire is the catalyst.
4.Sylar descibed Claire when he learns her ability, describing it as special and unique, which is referring to the catalyst.

(And these were all said, right before Hiro and Claire went back to past)

  • Apparently, on the year 1991 - 2007 (Claire and Hiro NOT there yet) - Claire is the possessor. But when Claire and Hiro went to the future, the catalyst is transferred to Hiro instead of Claire. So what I mean is, Claire became a possessor in a different timeline(this timeline is the former episodes right before Claire and Hiro went back to time), which makes her a "former" possessor--NiveKJ13 (talk2me) 18:52, 9 December 2008 (EST)
  • Ultimately we don't know whether or not Claire ever actually possessed the catalyst. However, we have extremely good evidence that she probably did....but to say so is also to make conjectures about the paradoxes inherent in time travel. The best way to handle it on this page is to simply say what we know: Claire believed that she was the catalyst, based on something Sylar told her and her own personal intuition. She witnessed Kaito and Ishi talking about giving young Claire the light. She also was in her father's apartment when he received a phone call that she believed was from Kaito instructing Noah to give the baby the catalyst. Present Claire may have changed history in blocking what would probably have been Kaito's instructions to Noah, and giving Present Hiro the chance to take the light from his mother instead. ... I wouldn't deviate too much from that. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 19:00, 9 December 2008 (EST)
    • In conclusion, based on what we know, Claire is a former possessor of the catalyst.--NiveKJ13 (talk2me) 19:07, 9 December 2008 (EST)
      • A possible former possessor of the catalyst, saying she is would be as speculative as saying she isn't. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 19:20, 9 December 2008 (EST)
        • Yes. But still a "former" possessor. And as an admin already agrees, we should leave Claire Bennet's name on the former possessors leave.
          • But according to the new timeline, she never had it in the first place... :) --Punxas 12:55, 11 December 2008 (EST)

This case is now closed. Claire Bennet's name stays. --NiveKJ13 (talk2me) 19:28, 9 December 2008 (EST)

  • I disagree. You're making a huge leap in logic. A bunch of people thought she was the catalyst. Sylar said that Claire's different, but did he say "You emit an orange glow"? No. It's speculative to assume that she did have it, then time was changed. What we know is that Ishi gave it to Grown-up Hiro. So, the catalyst was gone for 16 years since Arthur went back in time and stole it, then went to the present. Never was it clearly stated that Claire did have it, but a bunch of people said they thought she had it. Sylar merely stated that Claire was different, he never stated she had the catalyst, nor would he know what it was. For all we know, the "difference" he's talking about is that she has herpes, and none of his other victims did. --Bob (talk) 21:20, 9 December 2008 (EST)

The thing is, putting her in the box says we consider that she did have the catalyst at some point, and that's not what Ryan said, he said possible. I've added the possible to the box, but I'm not sure whether it should stay there, if anything, he can remove Claire from the box and add her to the notes section, we did it with Arthur while he had no confirmation he had mental manipulation. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 19:38, 9 December 2008 (EST)

I like the idea of "possible". This whole thing sounds like an argument of a fate vs free will paradox. Think about it, when Claire returned to the future, she technically did not return to HER future, because she never got the catalyst in the first place (If we assume what everyone in the show claimed to be true about the Catalyst). So, Hiro went back in time to get his memory back, and in the process, changed the past when he picked up the catalyst. In doing so, he may have altered the time line, albeit subtly; nothing major changed in the future. --Punxas 15:55, 10 December 2008 (EST)
    • Even if it is possible, it doesn't belong in the info box since it's speculation. It belongs in the notes.--Bob (talk) 20:34, 10 December 2008 (EST)
* Perhaps we should put it on a Catalyst fan theory page? --Punxas 12:55, 11 December 2008 (EST)
      • Completely agree, Bob. Claire's name should absolutely be on this page...but not in the infobox. That section is reserved for confirmed information, not for speculative or possible information. Her name should be in the history since there are episodes where she talks about possibly being the catalyst and works against having that status. She should definitely be in the notes to explain all of this...and if she does have Herpes, she should be at the doctor's office. :) -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 21:36, 10 December 2008 (EST)

Catalyst, a part of Eclipse?

  • I just got this idea from the above, I think its a really good theory...what dyou think?--NiveKJ13 (talk2me) 16:17, 10 December 2008 (EST)
    • Mohinder didn't have the catalyst and the eclipse affected him so I doubt it--WarGrowlmon18 17:23, 10 December 2008 (EST)
      • No. I mean, don't you think the catalyst must be a form of the eclipse. Maybe its the Solar light and Lunar light combined together and turned into Aura, which made its appearrance like that because its the Light of the two sources, Sun and Moon. And the colour of the Catalyst looks Orange-reddish, which makes it similar to the colour of the shine in the outside of the eclipse. I'm not really saying this is a fact, but seems like a really good theory...--NiveKJ13 (talk2me) 19:54, 10 December 2008 (EST)
        • What "it seems like" is a leap of faith and not very logical. --Ricard Desi 20:20, 10 December 2008 (EST)
          • As I said, its a "theory", and should not be considered as a fact.--NiveKJ13 (talk2me) 17:48, 11 December 2008 (EST)

Why

I am really confused from the episode "Our Father", as to why Claire desperately did not want to be the catalyst, and why Hiro did want to be the catalyst. Claire did not even know she had it [assuming she did] until a couple episodes ago, then she was completely against it. In my opinion, it just makes sense to keep it in a human that cannot die. Thoughts? --Onehardrocker 14:44, 11 December 2008 (EST)

  • For Claire, being the catalyst meant being targeted. It also meant being kept hidden and safe, which has never been something Claire has wanted. It's not about dying (Arthur didn't die when he catalyzed the formula). It's about not having something within her that prevents her from being on the front lines (Angela ordered her to basically go into hiding). However, for Hiro, it was about honor and maturity. It was about proving to his parents that he could be trusted to carry such a great responsibility. It was about connecting with his mother. At least that's how I see it. :) -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 19:47, 11 December 2008 (EST)

Arthur

as i was reading the above conversations, more ideas came to me. i would assume these are all plot holes [since time travel is such a can of worms for a TV show] but no one has mentioned them, so i will. 1. why would Arthur bother sending people out to catch Claire in present day if he could just travel back and steal it from her when she was a baby, or from sick Ishi. Obviously, as we saw from Hiro, the possessor of the catalyst doesn't have to "give" it to someone, so he could have easily done either of these. and 2. something that really bugged me in the episode... how did Arthur know Hiro and Claire traveled back in time? The only ways would have been if a. he reads 9th wonders [lol no] or b. he saw the events changed in the future of the present time line and saw where the deviation occurred [think 'Back to the Future'], but this is unlikely since he dies quickly and has no time to figure it all out.--Onehardrocker 15:07, 11 December 2008 (EST)

  • Three words answer all your valid questions: More Dramatic Storytelling. :) -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 19:49, 11 December 2008 (EST)
  • After Sylar failed to capture Claire, Arthur could of used precognitive painting to learn that Claire and Hiro had gone back in time. (If Issac could paint those events, then so could Arthur) -- D_Toccs 9:32, 13 December 2008 (EST)

Hiros Ancestors

should Hiros ancestors be listed as previous holders? seeing as ishi did say that it had been in the family Fred1793 17:36, 11 December 2008 (EST)

  • We can't honestly say who in the family on her side had it, but I do think it's worth noting. At least say it has been in Ishi's family for generations.
    • Not necessarily. She said she 'wanted to keep it in the family'. Maybe it has been in her family for generations, but its just as possible to say it was stolen from her family and she is the first to get it back. Or maybe shes the one who stole it, and her ancestors would have never had it. Too many possibilities and saying that her ancestors had it is speculation. --Onehardrocker 19:39, 11 December 2008 (EST)

Glowing people

I've noticed a pattern with glowing characters.

First, in How to Stop and Exploding Man Peter glows.
Now, in Out Father, Hiro glows.

The similarity? Their heads mysteriously remain non-glowing while their bodies are so bright you can barely recognise them as wearing clothing. But really - I still don't understand what the catalyst actually is. A burst of solar radiation, as per what Mohinder was looking at on his computer? It would make sense, I suppose, but how does a healer transfer it to a time traveller, and how does a power absorber 'emit it' into a vat of liquid? Suspension of disbelief is definately needed on this one.--FlamingTomDude 02:31, 13 December 2008 (EST)

  • Actually, if you watch closely, Peter's face does glow when he is about to explode. In fact, the pattern of the glow gives him a cool, if not totally disturbing, glowing skull shining through. --Ricard Desi 11:19, 13 December 2008 (EST)

Previously Clip - Catalyst

Mohinder explained something about the catalyst in the "Previous On Heroes" clip of Dual.--NiveKJ13 (talk2me) 12:00, 16 December 2008 (EST)

  • I believe he told Arthur to focus his energy on the formula, so the chemical reaction could be catalyzed. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 16:20, 16 December 2008 (EST)
    • It was something along the lines of: "Focus your energy into the vat. The theory is that you should cause a chemical reaction on the molecular level." Some random crap to make the whole catalyst thing more scientific. :P Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ U | T | C ] 18:44, 23 December 2008 (EST)

How?

How was the formular used before, i think they catalyst is still around, they used the formular before, ishi still had it afterward... any body else realise this? Fred1793 18:39, 23 December 2008 (EST)

I don't think the catalyst can only be used a finite number of times. Sincerely, Thrashmeister [ U | T | C ] 18:43, 23 December 2008 (EST)
The difference between Ishi and Arthur is that Arthur died while he hosted the catalyst. - Josh (talk/contribs) 18:47, 23 December 2008 (EST)