Talk:Clairvoyance

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Ability Naming Conventions
The following sources are used for determining evolved human ability names, in order:
Episodes
2. Near-canon Sources Webisodes,
Graphic Novels,
iStories,
Heroes Evolutions
3. Secondary Sources Episode commentary,
Interviews,
Heroes: Survival
4. Common names for abilities Names from other works
5. Descriptions of abilities Descriptions
6. Possessor's name If no non-speculative
description is possible

Note: The highlighted row represents the level of the source used to determine clairvoyance's name.
Source/Explanation
"Clairvoyance" is explicitly named in the Genesis Files. Molly's tip in the Assignment tracker map confirms that she has this ability.

Name

I would prefer to rename this Clairvoyance, but will await further discussion. --Ted C 10:58, 15 May 2007 (EDT)

  • Clairvoyance is a better term, but doesnt that imply visions that happen in the past? Like Sanjog Iyler? If not, then yeah my vote goes with Clairvoyance --Piemanmoo 11:02, 15 May 2007 (EDT)
    • Clairvoyance is generally regarded as the ability to see things happening far away. Merriam-Webster defines it as "1- the power or faculty of discerning objects not present to the senses, 2- ability to perceive matters beyond the range of ordinary perception." Molly could apparently see brief glimpses of Matt that told her where he was. --Ted C 11:06, 15 May 2007 (EDT)
      • My understanding of clairvoyance (or "clear seeing") is that it includes knowledge beyond just knowing someone's location. However, when it comes to the powers, I tend to defer to Ted. Clairvoyance is not my favorite name, but it's not a bad description. — RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 11:08, 15 May 2007 (EDT)
        • Move made. "Clairvoyance" is just so much more familiar a term to most people that I think it's much more useful. --Ted C 11:12, 15 May 2007 (EDT)
    • As a note, postcognition and precognition are powers which are time-specific (seeing the past and future respectively) but leave the question of range open. "Clarvoyance" implies seeing at a distance but leaves the question of time open. A postcog, for example, most usually sees events that happened earlier in their current location or to a particular object, but a clairvoyant postcog could also have visions about past events in other locations.--Hardvice (talk) 14:46, 15 May 2007 (EDT)
  • I want to through into the ring that we change it to remote viewing, she saw matt from far away and was able to establish a lication, for better desription check the discussion on molly--Addude 00:45, 17 May 2007 (EDT)
  • My perception of clairvoyance was always an ability to know something was going on at that particular moment, and I'm not one who's well researched on paranormal, nor do I look these names up. Instead, I like to go with what most people know (the stuff seen on Jamaican psychic nightlines). Personally, clairvoyance shows what Molly did in Landslide: see a person at that particular moment and know what was happening with that individual, including their location. The Company used her as a tracking system, but that doesn't mean her ability is limited to knowing just the location of the person, but any number of things. The episode shows her thinking of Matt, and a) his current/most recent location, b) actually seeing him, and c) being able to know, on a map, where he is. Clairvoyance, to me, sustains the examples shown in the show.--Bob 02:56, 17 May 2007 (EDT)
  • I agree with Addude. The power Molly demonstrates is closer to remote viewing than to general "clairevoyance". Remote Viewing is the purported ability for a viewer to gather information on a remote target consisting of an object, place, or person, etc., that is hidden from the physical perception of the viewer and typically separated from the viewer at some distance.--Skener47 14:19, 17 May 2007 (EDT)
    • The dictionary definition of "clairvoyance" is almost the same: 1- the power or faculty of discerning objects not present to the senses, 2- the ability to perceive matters beyond the range of ordinary perception. Clairvoyance is a somewhat more familiar term. --Ted C 14:29, 17 May 2007 (EDT)
      • "Clairvoyance" has the added benefit of not sounding like Molly has the power to look at a channel changer. — RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 15:00, 17 May 2007 (EDT)
        • It's also too general. Claivoyance can take any form of extra-sensory perception (precognition, postcognition, psychometry, remote viewing, the ability to see astral/invisible beings/objects, etc). Whereas remote viewing is the specific ability that Molly uses. Granted, remote viewing is an aspect of clairvoyance, but enhanced strength and enhanced speed are both aspects of enhanced physiology. Even your definition of clairvoyance lacks the two things that Molly's power deals with; people and locations. --Skener47 15:10, 17 May 2007 (EDT)
          • The definition provided for "remote viewing" is essentially identical to the definition of "clairvoyance". I see no reason to make a change, especially since my understanding of the term exactly matches the dictionary definition. The "vague" definition you describe fits the more ambiguous term "psychic", not "clairvoyant". --Ted C 16:46, 17 May 2007 (EDT)
            • I agree with Addude and Skener --- Remote viewing is EXACTLY what Molly Can do, Clairvoyance is just seeing --- meaning you do not innately know where people all -- you just know what is happening in another area, Remote Viewing you think of someone and can know what they doing and know where they are located (which is what Molly Walker can do exactly) an example of clairvoynace is knowing and seeing that your husband was in a car accident --- remote viewing --- would need to think about your husband at the right moment to know he was in a car accident. they seem similar but in fact they are very nuanced. Guy 21:48, 20 May 2007 (EDT)
              • "Remote viewing" is exactly what hit says, seeing things that are not present; the definitions is essentially identical to "clairvoyance", so there's no reason to change it. "Remove viewing" does not necessarily imply locating anything seen. The term for locating things psychically is "dowsing", which Molly does do, but having seen her power in use, we know she also has brief visions of people as well. Clairvoyance remains a widely understood term for what Molly does, and it's broad enough to encompass things like locating people as well as seeing them. --Ted C 10:08, 21 May 2007 (EDT)

I just got your joke Ryan--- lol --- though funny, it does not constitute naming it a non-inclusive power.

  • I'm not sure I ever said that a farcically mistaken meaning for "remote viewing" was a reason for naming the power "clairvoyance", only that it was a reason to not name it "remote viewing". I happen to agree with you that "clairvoyance" is not the best name, and for similar reasons. I think "clairvoyance" connotes a bit more than just what Molly can do. The best suggestion I've heard so far is "telelocation". But I still think "clairvoyance" is better than "remote viewing" by a long shot. — RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 19:49, 21 May 2007 (EDT)
    • Agreed. Though, ultimately I've yet to hear any term that actually seems to describe specifically her power. All of these terms could just as aptly describe the kid who can locate any cheese sandwich in the world just by thinking about it (based on the same reasoning people are using). Yet we wouldn't say that Molly and the cheese sandwich-locating kid have the same power, no? I know everyone wants to come up with an eloquent, cool, sounding technical name, but right some of the suggestions seem to be at the expense of what the power does and doesn't do. She somehow knows (by whatever mechanism -- doesn't necessarily seem to be that she sees them) the current location of people. And based on the finale, Molly seems to even know which map her hand is hovering over at any time though her eyes are closed and focused on the object person. --Glue 02:10, 22 May 2007 (EDT)
      • The parapsychological operational definitions are as follows:

Remote viewing: Remote viewing is the alleged psychic ability to perceive places, persons, and actions that are not within the range of the senses. Remote viewing might well be called psychic dowsing. Instead of a twig or other device, one uses psychic power alone to dowse the entire galaxy, if need be, for whatever one wants: oil, mountains on Jupiter, a lost child, a buried body, a hostage site thousands of miles away, inside the Pentagon or the Kremlin, etc.

Clairvoyance: Clairvoyance is an alleged psychic ability to see things beyond the range of the power of vision. Clairvoyance is usually associated with precognition or retrocognition. The faculty of seeing into the future is called "second sight" if it is not induced by scrying, drugs, trance, or other artificial means.

Definitions taken from [1]. Notice Ted C's assertion of Molly's power being "psychic dowsing" actually appears in the remote viewing definition. --Skener47 09:45, 22 May 2007 (EDT)

  • All that said, I'm not inclined to change it at this time. If we find another character competing for the power name, then I'd say we need to make the switch, but until then, Clairvoyance just sounds better. --Ted C 09:49, 22 May 2007 (EDT)
    • Wow ^that is a very power hungry statement I say we make it democratic, I would agree with Ryan that Telelocation (though essentially a created power) is better than clairvoyance -- remote viewing is my personal favorite so

Telelocation 1 Clairvoyance 1 Remote Viewing 0

so continue Guy 18:01, 23 May 2007 (EDT)

  • I'm not sure what's so "power hungry" about Ted saying he's not inclined to change the name or that he thinks something else sounds good. It's no different than somebody saying that one term is "a much better term" than another, or the myriad of other people who politely express their opinions on the talk pages. — RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 13:07, 25 May 2007 (EDT)
  • You know my vote's for remote viewing. --Skener47 6:50, 24 May 2007 (EDT)
  • In the past, we've gone towards a "guide" if you would for naming certain abilities. For Claire, "rapid cellular regeneration" was used. For Ted, "induced radioactivity" was also called upon. These names came from the the Genesis files. The reasoning behind this was a canon source for the name of an ability. Clairvoyance is listed in this file. It describes aspects of this ability. Clairvoyance allows for someone to a) see the surroundings of an event as its occurring just from thought, and b) locate the individual being thought about with relative ease (as with the case of locating Sylar in Kirby Plaza when Mohinder warns Molly that he's coming). Remote viewing seems to just allow for viewing, not much else. Remote location seems to just allow for location, but not much else. Clairvoyance allows for a knowledge of some event outside of their normal awareness just through thought. Location and viewing is encompassed by clairvoyance and it's a terminology already used within canon sources. So to agree with Ted, it's quite the nomenclature. --Bob 08:23, 24 May 2007 (EDT)
    • That's a great point, Bob. I'm still not a fan of the name, but one of the reasons I haven't lobbied harder against it is because it's a name Chandra used. In fact, of all our power names, Ted's power (um, Ted S, not Ted C) and Claire's power have some of the worst names on this site. But changing it would be to ignore canon sources. Unless Mohinder says something to Molly like, "Molly, I really like how you're able to telelocate people" or "I need to heal the remote locator!", I think we're stuck with "clairvoyance," for better or for worse. — RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 08:48, 24 May 2007 (EDT)
      • Unfortunately, the clairvoyance that appears in the Genesis Files is just a word on a page. It is used in conjunction with an unnamed female in 1978, not Molly Walker, nor is is ever witnessed in the show. We shouldn't assume that the two are the same since the definitions are different. For all we know, the clairvoyance the Files are referring to could be the classic "second sight" or precognition. Perhaps, Isaac's ability should be renamed to clairvoyance instead of having it listed as precognition? Bob's description of how "clairvoyance" is used to locate people (seeing people's surroundings and interpretting where they are) is actually the same as what he says about remote viewing (seeing surroundings). An example of remote viewing: The CIA and the U.S. Army thought enough of remote viewing to spend millions of taxpayers' dollars on research in a program referred to as "Stargate." The program involved using psychics for such operations as trying to locate Gaddafi of Libya (so our Air Force could drop bombs on him) and the locating of a missing airplane in Africa. Notice the similarity to Molly's power. --Skener47 09:09, 24 May 2007 (EDT)
        • "Induced radioactivity" is just a word on a page too. Isaac's power isn't clairvoyance. Clairvoyance has never been used to describe the ability to see the future. --Heroe!(talk) (contribs) 10:38, 24 May 2007 (EDT)
        • Most sources I've read (and this is in a ten-minute Google crawl) tend to use remote viewing and clairvoyance fairly interchangeably. Others mention a distinction, but the distinction they mention isn't always the same from source to source. I'm just not seeing how we can say that one name is better than the other in this case since nobody seems to be able to agree on the distinction and the dictionary definitions are practically identical. Telelocation might be acceptable in that it at least says what it is (although I suspect it's just a weasel name for "psycholocation", which is the actual name for the ability to not only see, but locate, missing people and things, but which people have objected to for other reasons). With that in mind, the playing field is very, very even; in that case, the appearance of "clarivoyance" on a folder in the Genesis Files (and not merely in the journal) tips the scales in favor of "clairvoyance", in my opinion. (Well, that and the fact that we're already calling it that. It would take more compelling evidence than I've seen for another term for me to believe we need to move it.) And Isaac's power being called "precognition" is also based on a canon sources: Eden calls him "the precog".--Hardvice (talk) 11:34, 24 May 2007 (EDT)
          • Clairvoyance has never been used to describe the ability to see the future. However, they are often closely associated with each other, much like clairvoyance and remote viewing. So if precognition has it's own classification, then so should remote viewing. And Isaac's power being called "precognition" is also based on a canon sources: Eden calls him "the precog". Okay, so going by strictly canon sources directly related to Molly, the power should be called "psychic tracking" since she's been referred to as the "tracking system" by Bennet on numerous occasions. Who knows, maybe the File "Clairvoyance" is a blanket category to covers any number of "psychic seeing", including remote viewing and precognition. I mean no one has seen a file marked "Precognition". And, IF that is the case and clairvoyance is being used as a blank term, then I am willing to accept it, at least for now. --Skener47 11:56, 24 May 2007 (EDT)
            • I don't think it's clear(confirmed) that Molly is actually seeing the targets of her ability as in she can actually SEE what they look like, what they're doing, what activity they're engaged in, who else might happen to be around. After rechecking the last two eps, she specifically states that she "thinks about someone, and she knows where they are in her head," and, "I think about him in my mind, then I point to him on the map". I think people are reading too much into the visual effect used when she located Parkman. The issue I have with terms that involve "seeing", "viewing", or "clairvoyance" is that they suggest a lot more than how Molly describes it herself. Yes, the person "worse than the boogeyman" can see her. But Molly doesn't elaborate why and I really don't think it's a symmetric ability to see each other. Perhaps the "worse than the boogeyman" person is the one with true clairvoyance/remote seeing (and/or some creepy ability to make Molly aware of it). Beyond this, simply remotely seeing someone, standing in a field for instance, wouldn't necessarily convey where in the world this field is. Yet it seems pretty clear that Molly can pinpoint where any person is. As it is, I think it's very specific to location of people. --Glue 16:41, 24 May 2007 (EDT)
  • I just have have a question --- what was it before it was Clairvoyance? totallycharged
    • "Telelocation" --Heroe!(talk) (contribs) 19:38, 25 May 2007 (EDT)
    • It won't really matter too much what it was called beforehand because the article was originally named without consensus so that we could at least write something about it. That's why the discussion continues... (Admin 19:43, 25 May 2007 (EDT))
      • i was really just curious --- thank you for explanation. I agree there should be consensus --- and compromise from all camps. i would be just as open to not naming the power but instead having it ambiguous still, until a consensus can be obtained either through canonically sources or otherwise Guy 20:59, 25 May 2007 (EDT)
        • Oh, ok. I had thought your question was a prelude to just suggesting we rename it back to the oldest name so I was trying to anticipate that. :) (Admin 21:04, 25 May 2007 (EDT))
          • No i am not a sinister person, just adamant about the paranormal, and community consensus, if i was the only one who felt that clairvoyance was not an appropriate name, i would have gave up long ago. :) Guy 21:32, 25 May 2007 (EDT)
      • "I don't think it's clear(confirmed) that Molly is actually seeing the targets of her ability as in she can actually SEE what they look like, what they're doing, what activity they're engaged in"

If that was true How would she know that "worse then the boogeyman" could watch her- I Live In Your Closet 10:19, 29 May 2007

  • I'd regard that as speculative, not confirmed. As I suggested, it may be that the person "worse than the boogeyman" has some special ability to specifically make her aware of it.
  1. If Molly actually sees her targets, why would she never use the most natural term ("see") to describe it?
  2. Also consider that Molly does use "see" to describe what the "much worse" person can do, but she doesn't use it regarding herself. I think this is a specific hint that Molly doesn't "see" them. She just knows where they are, on a map (which alone defies intuitive understanding and any deeper analysis already).
  3. How would seeing her targets help Molly locate where in the world that person is? Unless she somehow knows what every possible location in the world looks like visually, wouldn't this be a separate ability? I think asking this is kind of like asking how she knows what page of the world atlas book she's on with her eyes closed or exactly what map information is on the page. I think implying that she sees the target is already reading more into her power than the specific description, and intentionally limited one, that she gives.
  4. It's possible to locate people (or objects) without seeing them. I can roughly locate someone (if I can hear them, for example) outside of my sight or with my eyes closed. Likewise, bats and dolphins can more clearly locate objects without seeing.
  5. It's likewise possible to see someone without being able to locate them. For instance, you can see someone on a tv monitor via a security camera without necessarily knowing where that camera is located or where it's aiming. Characters in the show have seen people and places depicted in Isaac's paintings without identifying where they were (at least, not immediately).

My larger concern here is that we're jumping to conclusions and confusing seeing with locating. They aren't the same, and one doesn't imply the other. Aside from the visual they used with Matt's face flashing on screen, I don't see why seeing comes into play. To me, Matt's face being on-screen could be interpreted as purely a visual effect to communicate the idea that Molly was thinking about him at that moment. Like Sylar's altered voice, it's just an effect. =) --Glue 03:24, 31 May 2007 (EDT)

  • Wonderful points --- but it seems that are friendly debate falls on deaf ears. Guy 19:25, 2 June 2007 (EDT)

The boogeyman

"There is one person Molly says she does not want to find, since he can see her when she looks for him." Do we want to name this person as his identity has been revealed? --Marshmellis 22:02, 5 November 2007 (EST)

  • He's linked to Mr. Parkman. He's not named as the boogeyman.--Bob (talk) 22:12, 5 November 2007 (EST)

Clairvoyance (from 17th century French with clair meaning "clear" and voyance meaning "visibility") is the apparent ability to gain information about an object, location or physical event through means other than the known human senses,[1][2] a form of extra-sensory perception. A person said to have the ability of clairvoyance is referred to as a clairvoyant ("one who sees clear"). that is the meaning of clairvoyance but remote viewing sounds more accurate--Zoga78 00:53, 18 December 2008 (EST)

Future Peter Finding Claire at the train-tracks

Is there any way to explain Future Peter flying in from NY and being able to find Claire at the train tracks somewhere in Costa Verde, other than him using Clairvoyance gained from Molly at Kirby Plaza in (How to Stop an Exploding Man)--HiroDynoSlayer (talk) 09/23/2008 10:50 (EST)

  • Yeah...clever work on the part of the writers. --Yamawhata? 22:02, 1 January 2009 (EST)

Question

How do you think clairvoyance would work if there are two identical people existing at the same time. Say, for example, would Molly be able to locate Peter if Future Peter's existing in the same timeline? Would Molly be able to find Julien Dumont or any other person with cloning powers?--Resonantyaw 23:16, 4 November 2008 (EST)

  • Dunno. We were close to that situation in I Am Become Death, weren't we? It'd be cool if they explored that in a graphic novel or an Evolutions bit, wouldn't it? -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 23:32, 4 November 2008 (EST)
    • I'm thinking a graphic novel with Molly in India might be forthcoming since she's listed there in the assignment tracker. I'm not sure if they'll answer your question, though. However, perhaps she's been keeping tabs on Peter and while in India she'd think that something seems wrong with her ability, and she that Peter's in two places at once, and that Julien was also. Then Sanjog, who lives in India, could help her understand what is going on. That'd be one way to solve your problem in a graphic novel. :) Of course, I'm still wondering what she'd say if someone asked her where Stephen Canfield is...--MiamiVolts (talk) 00:23, 5 November 2008 (EST)
      • Good questions! And what about Barbara? Would Molly confuse her with Tracy, since the two women are part of a set of identical triplets? --SacValleyDweller (talk) 00:59, 5 November 2008 (EST)
        • When she explained her ability to Mohinder, I think Molly said she could point to a map where a person was just by knowing their name. I'm not sure how that works exactly, but I don't think she'd necessarily have any trouble with identical triplets.--MiamiVolts (talk) 02:16, 5 November 2008 (EST)
          • As I recall, as of, Powerless was it, Molly needed to know what the person looked like two people looking the same might pose a problem. This could be a good BTE question. --SacValleyDweller (talk) 02:23, 5 November 2008 (EST)
            • Did Maya show Molly a photo of Alejandro, or just ask her to locate him? I've forgotten and our character history doesn't say.--MiamiVolts (talk) 02:28, 5 November 2008 (EST)
              • Yes. Molly needed a photo of Alejandro and Maya showed her one. --SacValleyDweller (talk) 02:33, 5 November 2008 (EST)
                • Ah, okay. That's interesting, then... Bennet used Molly (the tracking system) to find Peter Petrelli and wake him up from his dream at the end of Season One, right? That means he just happened to be carrying around a picture of Peter? Cause as far as I know, Molly's never met him...--MiamiVolts (talk) 02:37, 5 November 2008 (EST)
                  • Yeah...never crossed my mind untill now. That's an interesting little hiccup isnt it? --SacValleyDweller (talk) 02:46, 5 November 2008 (EST)
                    • In the clone case, I think that she'd need to be more specific to find someone, if she looks just for Julien Dumont, I think she'd find all of them, but if someone tells her to find "root Julien", she'd find him as well, it's all about covering all the potential loopholes. Intuitive Empath 04:31, 5 November 2008 (EST)

Are you sure it's canon?

From what we know, Chandra's files don't say clairvoyance is kept by Molly. We also have seen he called so Angela's power, which is too see future in her dreams and hardly is a proper name for it. How do you know "clairvoyance" is Molly's power?
If I'm right, I suggest you simply name it tracking. This is what Molly does: she tracks people, she used to be the Company's tracking system. -- Altes 09:52, 30 May 2009 (EDT)

  • Dictionary.com defines clairvoyance as "the supernatural power of seeing objects or actions removed in space or time from natural viewing."--Gibbeynator 12:18, 15 July 2009 (EDT)
    • Well, now that Rebellion, part 6 has been released, I realize that. It's okay now. -- Altes 03:49, 16 July 2009 (EDT)

Invisibility

Could a person with this abiity see a person with invisibility since the english translation is "Clear Vision" when using the ability or just painly looking at the person. User:50000JH/signature