Talk:Adoptive muscle memory

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Ability Naming Conventions
The following sources are used for determining evolved human ability names, in order:
Episodes
2. Near-canon Sources Webisodes,
Graphic Novels,
iStories,
Heroes Evolutions
3. Secondary Sources Episode commentary,
Interviews,
Heroes: Survival
4. Common names for abilities Names from other works
5. Descriptions of abilities Descriptions
6. Possessor's name If no non-speculative
description is possible

Note: The highlighted row represents the level of the source used to determine adoptive muscle memory's name.
Source/Explanation
Mohinder explicitly states this name (The Line).

Name

We're talking about this in Monica's page... who remade it with the title "Reflexes"? =\--Riddler 23:29, 15 October 2007 (EDT)

  • I was just changing the capitalization. I didn't realize it had been moved. OTOH, "photographic reflexes" is the fairly standard comic book name for this ability. See Taskmaster for an example.--Hardvice (talk) 23:30, 15 October 2007 (EDT)
    • I really don't think this is the right term to use unless it's eventually mentioned in the show. Please check out Monica's talk?--Riddler 23:31, 15 October 2007 (EDT)
      • At the same rate, until we knew what to call Bob's ability (alchemy), we had a name for it on here (aurification). Really, until we get information from a canon source, cast interview, or something of the like, this title should work.--Jpatch 09:40, 16 October 2007 (EDT)
        • Alchemy for Bob? That insinuates far more than merely turning silverware into gold. It is possible Bob's abilities are molecular in nature, meaning he can turn anything into anything, or any metal into any other metal. We simply don't know enough yet. As for Monica, (wrestling and cooking shows) I think what we should be calling it currently is Really Bad Television Mimicry. - ZachsMind 23:04, 16 October 2007 (EDT)

I disagree with the name. Adoptive muscle memory. A much better name is Photographic Reflexes or Muscle Mimicry. Can I change it?

  • Photographic Reflexes was used previously. When it was used in a Canon source The Line, it was changed to reflect the name the show gave it; thus the name we use, even if not everyone "agrees" with it. -- Lulu (talk)
    • The simple and absolute answer is "no". Canon source from episodes.--Ice Vision 00:40, 21 November 2007 (EST)
      • Right. Both photographic reflexes and muscle mimicry redirect to the page. But since Mohinder not only referred to the power as "adoptive muscle memory" but explicitly named it such, we use that name. The great thing is there doesn't have to be a debate about it, since the name was given to us. Despite whatever other names might be better or the flaws that are inherent in the name, we use the canon source, as per our naming conventions. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 06:34, 21 November 2007 (EST)

Almost the same power as Empathic Mimicry

I watched Kindness of Strangers and I found that this power resemble's the same power as Peter has .. in some way only here she has to see, feel, smell it (by reflexes) to actually mimic it.. I'm wondering if it would work the same for powers like ... Micah's power that she could learn that .. and see somebody fly and then doing it herself.

So I was wondering if anybody else feels the same way. Couldn't this power also be entitled as Relex Mimicry (I like the title that has already been picked.) But to relate it more to Peter's power.

  • I was thinking the same thing, about physical powers like flying or enhanced strength, however Peter's power changes his DNA, Monica's does not. That's the major difference. --SomeoneImportant 16:00, 16 October 2007 (EDT)
  • So far, all we've seen her duplicate are physical skills. I don't think there's any reason to assume she can duplicate powers yet. Nothing she's done so far is anything she couldn't have done with lots of practice--she just doesn't need the practice.--Hardvice (talk) 16:04, 16 October 2007 (EDT)
  • I think the difference is indeed that Monica stores the abilities/skills into her memory and Peter makes them blend into his DNA (btw is it proven that his abilities blend with his DNA) anyway .. the difference is that Peter uses some sort of sixth sense to take on abilities and that Monica needs to use her other five senses to mimic something. Or the difference could be that Monica can only take on skills and Peter abilities. But you know it could well be that if Monica would see West, Peter or Nathan fly she can copy and save it into her memory get her mind to access that unevolved spot of her brain to make her fly herself. Ah well we'll see.

But what about the name of the ability, could we change it so it would look more like a counterpart to Peter's power of Empathic Mimicry ? DarthYotho 16:12, 16 October 2007 (EDT)

  • No, the name is perfect as it is. Her powers only let her copy movements that she is physicaly capable of doing. She can learn to juggle knives by watching someone else, but she can't watch Niki lift a bus over her head and then do it herself. So far she can cut a tomato nicely and do a flying kick, not use technopathy or anything. --Piemanmoo 17:05, 16 October 2007 (EDT)
  • I too am hoping her ability to mimic will extend to person-to-person power mimicry. If she witnesses Micah heal an appliance, she should be able to mimic that action, with similar results. It is as logical a progression as to assume Peter's natural empathic tendencies would extend into power mimicry. This would mean then that her power IS like Peter's, only she has to visually see the power in action, whereas Peter only has to feel the presence of an abnormal to mimic it. IF I'M CORRECT, the proper term for Monica would be more akin to Optic Mimicry as opposed to Empathic Mimicry. Some would argue that visually watching wrestling doesn't change her DNA, but I'd counter that all these 'heroes' can theoretically be evolving all the time, once they're activated: hence why Suresh called his book "Activating Evolution." - ZachsMind 23:04, 16 October 2007 (EDT)
    • I like the idea of Optic Mimicry, but she could use even more reflexes to learn something. So to just call the eye reflex we could call it Mimicry Reflex (btut optical sounds cool 2). Maybe if she listens to a voice she can mimic it. But the only way to prove all these possibilities, and if she can mimic powers will be clear after we see more episodes with her.DarthYotho 14:22, 17 October 2007 (EDT)
      • I don't think she will be able to mimic powers. Remember that not all the fans of Heroes are hardcore and seeing a power that is slightly different than Peter's will confuse, or lead people to assume too much. Plus, physically speaking Peter changes when he absorbs a power, his DNA alters, Monica's does not, although we haven't seen all that much. --SomeoneImportant 17:15, 18 October 2007 (EDT)

It's not the same. Monica sees something and her brain copies the action done to complete perfection and sends the messages to her muscles to perform it. It's muscle-brain interaction. She can look at Nathan and fly. It has to be human actions. Not superhuman. Elemental5293 00:38, 21 November 2007 (EST)

Relationship with Micah

There seem to be clues that Micah has something to do with Monica acquiring or using this power. They zoomed in on his hand on her back for an uncomfortably long time right before she learned the wrestling move, and he said something about how he wanted to help her with her dream. I didn't notice if he touched her before she learned the tomato trick. But it's also apparently a brand new power for her, and it coincidentally started activating after Micah moved in. I couldn't catch if there's a smoking gun for this connection yet. Did anyone else catch something more? What has to happen before this becomes a part of the power's description and not just a theory?--E rowe 16:35, 16 October 2007 (EDT)

  • She asks what he's doing, and he says "I wish I could fix your dreams". I take it as if he's trying to use his power on her, but it doesn't work. He also never touched her (on screen) until the hug, which happened after she demonstrated her ability twice.--Bob (Talk) 17:08, 16 October 2007 (EDT)
  • Yeah, it's just showing that Micah's sad because he can only fix technology. And since Monica isn't a cyborg, he can't help fix her dreams. I mean, he could hack into Burger Bonanza's corporate office and make her the new CEO, but stealing pay-per-view was bad enough according to her. --Piemanmoo 17:14, 16 October 2007 (EDT)
    • Yeah, I saw it the same way. But I would caution against saying she's not a cyborg, since we don't know that yet. But the other thing is that it's not necessarily right to say it didn't work. I know the story hasn't played out yet, but the predictable outcome is that her heroism in the restaurant will result in her getting the promotion she wanted after all. So, it just may be that, if he did somehow activate her power, then in so doing he did fix her dream.--E rowe 17:28, 16 October 2007 (EDT)
    • Yeah, I saw it as a cute moment where Micah, who knows he can talk to machines, tries to explore his abilities to see if he can somehow do the same with people, too. To his disappointment he can't... but at least he tried. :) (Admin 17:17, 16 October 2007 (EDT))
  • Before that scene tho, she already had the ability. She did the tomato rose before we saw Micah touch her. This takes me back tho to the scene last season between Eden & Matt when she told him to get donuts using her ability. I suggest she may have inadvertently triggered the power in him. That for those who are dormant in their abilities, being in the presence of someone else with a triggered ability can 'wake them up'. However, depending on how much contact a dormant has with a fully realized 'special' may affect how strong that power is. Micah's presence in her house may have been enough to trigger the tomato rose, but it wasn't until he gave her a big hug that enough of her DNA was activated to kick in the evolutionary spurt. So when Micah failed, in trying to help, he may have actually succeeded in triggering her dormant power, even if he couldn't fix her dreams. - ZachsMind 23:10, 16 October 2007 (EDT)

Television

  • Even though it still isn't proven that the television is what causes Monica's ability, if you look really close to the scene when Monica is looking at the wrestling match, and it zooms in on her eyes, the scene quickly ends. As the scene goes from one to the other, the television in the next scene (with Matt, Mohinder, and Molly) quickly flashes. Does this possibly hint that televisions have a connection to her power?FlyingMan 10:56, 17 October 2007 (EDT)
    • Sorry to correct you, but it wasn't a TV set in Mohinder's apartment. The camera zooms in on Monica's eyes, reflecting the 619 move she sees, then transitions to a rectangular shaped lighted lampshade in Mohinder's apartment, not a TV set. --Khaosworks 13:34, 17 October 2007 (EDT)
    • You will see Monica use her ability to reproduce something she sees in person in the next episode. And Khaosworks is correct, no TV in Mo's place.--Bob (Talk) 13:48, 17 October 2007 (EDT) (edited by Admin 13:54, 17 October 2007 (EDT) to remove some gratuitious spoiler info from popular non-spoiler discussion page)

Screen still

Adoptive muscle memory.jpg

This is pretty minor, but I think it'd be more relevant if the photo for this page was one of Monica memorizing something rather than this kicking picture. Just cuz that'd make it more distinguishable.

  • There's this one. I don't have a strong preference for one over the other. Let's see what others think.--Hardvice (talk) 16:40, 18 October 2007 (EDT)
    • I don't think the picture of her eye as she's watching the movement really captures the essense of the power as much as seeing her reproduce a complicated action. Plus with the eye picture I think it's much less clear what's taking place. I prefer the image that's in place currently. (Admin 16:51, 18 October 2007 (EDT))
    • What about the shot from The Line where Monica is doing the handstand as the gymnist on the TV behind her? Modestoddesy 21:54, 31 October 2007.
      • I like that idea. Let me see what I can find. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 22:01, 31 October 2007 (EDT)
      • I like it, too. Especially if there's a shot of Monica performing the handstand where you can see the gymnist performing it, too. (Admin 22:05, 31 October 2007 (EDT))
        • Yeah, that works. I'll go ahead and make the changes. It's not the best shot, since her body is not perfectly aligned with the gymnast's. If somebody wants to reupload it to a better shot, that'd be great. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 22:14, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

Not a bad picture. Elemental5293 00:41, 21 November 2007 (EST)

New name

Micah says that St. Joan is a muscle mimic, which means the power's name would be "muscle mimicry". -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 22:09, 22 October 2007 (EDT)

  • Or Muscular Mimicry, I'm not sure which would be correct. But yeah, I mentioned this as well =P--Riddler 22:10, 22 October 2007 (EDT)
  • Yeah, I don't know which one I like better. Photographic reflexes or muscle mimcry? o.O haha Jason Garrick 22:19, 22 October 2007 (EDT)
    • Muscle Mimicry no doubt, Photographic Reflexes doesn't describe the power correctly, which is why I didn't like it to begin with. =P--Riddler 22:20, 22 October 2007 (EDT)
      • Actually, this episode showed that photographic reflexes are exactly what she has. They're reflex actions, she's not controlling them. That being said, it looks like the canonical choice is "muscle mimic(ry)" for now unless Mohinder starts a file on her and decides otherwise. (Admin 22:25, 22 October 2007 (EDT))
        • Yeah, exactly. She was staring at her hands while they were playing the piano. Also she said her body does it before her mind does. It takes your mind to "mimic" something but your body to "reflex" something. Jason Garrick 23:17, 22 October 2007 (EDT)
          • That's when she didn't understand what was going on. When Micah enlightened her, she showed much more control.--Riddler 23:21, 22 October 2007 (EDT)
            • Right, she was able to purposely choose to do only the "double dutch" (jump rope) and not the basketball layup or the other thing (forgot what it was) she saw with Micah when she went out with him to test her new ability.--MiamiVolts (talk) 23:39, 22 October 2007 (EDT)
  • I don't really like the name, the power looks like you are suppose to be this muscular person .. can't they come up with cooler names. Come up with a name that connects mimicry with her senses .. since she uses her senses/reflexes .. kind of like .. Sensory Mimicry System (or without system at the end) read this --> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensory_system <-- or Mimicry by senses. Think about it. Don't really like the current title, it doesn't really connect to the optic thingie we saw last week or the hearing thing. Muscles are only being used they don't controle themselfs, their controlled by impulses, that come from the brain and before that they come from senses such as sight, hearing, touch, smell, taste. hahah that when she tasts something she can immidiatly indentify it and be like a damn good chef... damn let's hope Mohinder changes it cuz this is badddd =P DarthYotho 18:11, 25 October 2007 (EDT)
    • Coulda sworn he said "Adoptive" - could be my lack of Enhanced hearing though. =P--Riddler 21:09, 29 October 2007 (EDT)
      • It was adoptive. You can hear it plus the closed captioning did match as well. (Admin 21:13, 29 October 2007 (EDT))
        • I can get my hands on a script soon, then we will know for sure .. if it was really Adoptive or just Senhil's/Mohinder's accent. I dunno but "Adaptive just makes more sense. I'll know soon enough ;) --DarthYotho 15:18, October 30, 2007
    • i like muscle mimicry, or physical mimicry. the idea of mimicry in general could be a top "class" of ability. so peter and Monica would be in the same class, and the specific abilities would be the "species" of Genetic Mimicry and Muscle mimicry.
      • Mohinder already provided the canonical name in The Line so it's set in stone now unless Mohinder changes his mind. (Admin 03:09, 31 October 2007 (EDT)) (Admin 03:09, 31 October 2007 (EDT))
      • Jason Garrick got it right basically. She sees it and her mind copies it down and transmits the information to her muscles which perform the action. A proper term would be muscle mimicry but its too heavy on the muscles when it is more emphasized on the brain so photographic reflexes is better. Elemental5293 00:44, 21 November 2007 (EST)
        • With all due respect, we don't really know all the mechanics of the power and exactly how it works. These are pretty great guesses (and probably spot on), but they're still speculation. As for the name, even if it's kind of far off the mark, and even if a real genetic scientist were to come on the site and tell us why such-and-such name is better or why "adoptive muscle mimicry" is a poor choice, it doesn't matter. The name was given in a canon source--by a resident expert, no less. But even if he's kind of wrong, we still use the name he gives, as per our naming conventions. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 06:39, 21 November 2007 (EST)

I think we should call it "Muscle Mimicry" . Gabriel Bishop 16:54, 19 December 2008 (EST) Gabriel Bishop

DarthYotho- Why does this ability name suggest you are supposed to be a muscular person? It's adoptive muscle memory. It adopts (Mimics) muscle memory, which is what your body remembers doing. You adopt that, and copy the physical actions of other people. Nothing in there suggests being muscular.

Gabriel Bishop- Muscle mimicry? She doesn't become like a muscle.

Guys, adoptive muscle memory is from a canon source. It doesn't matter how bad it sounds (And it shouldn't sound bad...), we're stuck with it.--ERROR 20:31, 10 June 2009 (EDT)