Talk:Outfit morphing

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Sure sounds like melting to me...

From the information given on this page, (and me not being a religious iStory follower) I believe that it is actually more speculative to say this new power is a separate ability than to say it's melting, an ability which we already know. The man is described to do exactly what Zane and Sylar were able to do, he is seen melting objects. -- Psilaq R.- \m/ -_- \m/- 11:38, 12 April 2009 (EDT)

  • He can "melt" chains. Of course it's melting. --BoomerDay 14:01, 12 April 2009 (EDT)
    • While I do think that it's melting, I wouldn't support moving it there for now. Melting was never shown to be touch based, neither by Zane nor by Sylar. Unless it's revealed in future chapters or by interviews, SAS's ability is the way to go. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 17:53, 12 April 2009 (EDT)
      • I agree with Intuitive Empath on not merging this with melting, but don't think we know whether the ability is or isn't the same as Zane's melting ability. They could very well be one and the same, but the description is so vague that it's impossible to tell at this point.--MiamiVolts (talk) 18:51, 12 April 2009 (EDT)
      • Well, it would be kinda hard for this guy to not be touching the chains which are tying him up when he melts them... -- Psilaq R.- \m/ -_- \m/-18:58, 12 April 2009 (EDT)
        • Right, though we don't know whether or not he can also use his ability without touching them.--MiamiVolts (talk) 19:03, 12 April 2009 (EDT)
          • I believe it says he melts the chains into jeans. The exact quote being "The chains around the man with the crazy grin suddenly melt into jeans and a T-shirt" --posted by Laughingdevilboy

Talk 19:10, 12 April 2009 (EDT)

            • Right, I took that to mean that the chains appear to vanish into his jeans and T-shirt. But since it's supposed to be dark in that tent, I'm not sure whether Anna would be able to tell if any liquid fell to the ground.--MiamiVolts (talk) 19:21, 12 April 2009 (EDT)
              • I took it to mean the chains actually created the jeans and T-shirt when they melted --posted by Laughingdevilboy

Talk 19:43, 12 April 2009 (EDT)

                • I guess anything is possible, but it didn't say that the melting "formed" the jeans and T-shirt.--MiamiVolts (talk) 20:10, 12 April 2009 (EDT)
                  • I know, just my opinion :), the problem is they used "into" this could mean actually created them or the clothes absorbed the liquid. I do wish the heroes crew would become better at explaining and describing exactly what each ability is and does. But anyway, I agree with you, this page should be kept separate until new information comes to light to suggest otherwise. --posted by Laughingdevilboy

Talk 20:15, 12 April 2009 (EDT)

  • This is an actual serious question, i dont read the istory or whatever, but what reasons are there for this not being melting? --Lolwut 16:49, 13 April 2009 (EDT)
    • 1) Zane's melting ability didn't involve touching the item; 2) Zane's ability left mushy metallic substances behind... it isn't clear what happens with the crazy grin man's ability, but Anna didn't see any remains fall to the ground. PS: You should check it out; it's actually quite a fun read. :)--MiamiVolts (talk) 17:12, 13 April 2009 (EDT)
      • But Knox and Niki have the same power because they have a similar effect, and we have seen variations of powers take Flight for example. As for my opinion I think we should leave it as is, because it could go either way.--Sylar Fan09 20:55, 13 April 2009 (EDT)
        • Well I can't argue there, I've always supported the split between Niki and Knox's ability, but as it is now, there's not enough information to say they have the same ability. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 20:58, 13 April 2009 (EDT)
          • Not sure you understand... Niki and Knox both have an ability that enhances their strength... in this case, there's a possibility that what the man is doing isn't really melting, but sublimation or some other sort of transformation instead.--MiamiVolts (talk) 21:54, 13 April 2009 (EDT)
          • I didn't mean to start a argument...all I meant was with some powers it seems that they can be accomplish in different ways such as with Niki and Knox,Ando and Paulette Hawkins(which I don't agree Ando has the exact same power), and possibly melting and Crazy grin man's ability:)--Sylar Fan09 22:21, 13 April 2009 (EDT)
            • We've always gone with what's said about the ability as it's name. They said he melted the chains, therefore he melts, not sublimates. There shouldn't even really be discussion here, lol.--Riddler 23:30, 14 April 2009 (EDT)

Worst name ever

This has got to be the worst ability name ever!--Cro Magnon 19:40, 15 April 2009 (EDT)

  • I know, but it adds a bit of humour to the wiki --IronyUTC CH 19:41, 15 April 2009 (EDT)
    • True.  :) --Cro Magnon 19:44, 15 April 2009 (EDT)
  • lol--Skyeatsout 23:21, 16 April 2009 (EDT)

Let's just go ahead

  • And Name this Melting it sounds correct--Skyeatsout 23:22, 16 April 2009 (EDT)
    • I added your signature again. We don't have confirmation it's the same as Zane's ability, so it can't go on the same page. Hopefully, we'll get some more info. on his ability tomorrow.--MiamiVolts (talk) 23:31, 16 April 2009 (EDT)
  • Since when did Sylar or Zane turn something into a pair of jeans ever? --Isaac Mendez 13:04, 20 April 2009 (EDT)

Clothes faking?

Describes what he does and it's better than the current name. Still an awkward ability. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 13:31, 17 April 2009 (EDT)

  • I assume you mean "clothes faking" with an s??? I was thinking of clothes morphing as that's a more common name, but either is okay... Also, I'm glad we didn't go with melting since this is definitely a different ability.--MiamiVolts (talk) 13:43, 17 April 2009 (EDT)

Talk 13:17, 20 April 2009 (EDT)

        • He turned chains into cloths so cloths morphing wouldn't work. It also seems pretty weird that an ability would only turn things in cloths, or cloths into other cloths. Cloths can be made out of anything. It's just material that is worn. So if it wasn't worn would he be able to change the material? I feel like maybe he uses his ability as a circus act when in reality his ability can change anything from one thing to another. So pretty much I feel we need to wait and see if the ability is used again before we go with a name. --OutbackZack 23:39, 21 April 2009 (EDT)
          • OutbackZack, all clothing is not cloth. Anna refers to him as the man with the fake clothes. "Clothes" refers to the outfit a person wears. And "clothes" is not our word, it's Anna's, so you can't rule it out and that reason doesn't count. His ability has been used multiple times, and he has only been shown capable of changing what he wears. However, I'm not opposed to generalizing the name and calling it "object morphing". Does that work better?--MiamiVolts (talk) 00:00, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
            • I think the only reason it's clothes is because he has to touch the object to morph it, and in each case he was wearing that object. I personally would prefer object morphing to eliminate any confusion, and just make it clear that it seems he has to touch that object for his ability to work. --OutbackZack 01:00, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
              • How about outfit morphing? Which would explain those chains as well. --Radicell 05:01, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
                • I still prefer object morphing, but I wouldn't be oppose to outfit morphing. --OutbackZack 14:50, 22 April 2009 (EDT)

Illusion

Illusion (Candice Wilmer, Crazy grin man): The ability to manipulate how other people perceive reality. -- Mike the Man-child!

  • As far as we know, the man isn't casting an illusion for his clothing. He simply morphs them.--MiamiVolts (talk) 23:49, 20 April 2009 (EDT)
    • You know, everytime I see you in ability talk pages Mike, you always throw a bunch of extremely speculative names, just out of curiosity, why do you do that? Nothing suggests the thinks you put forward and they just lead to unneeded discussion. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 13:54, 21 April 2009 (EDT)

Clothing Transmutation

User:Shadowulf1 12:52, 22 April 2009 (EDT) He is capable of changing his clothes and assimilating the molecules of other things into his clothes. It should be called Clothing Transmutation, Clothes-Shifting, Fashion Shifting or Wardrobe Shifting, imho (it seems to be the only plausible idea I can come up with because it's not just melting, and it seems to be a form of Shape shifting that only entails the clothes)...

  • I like this idea, it's not speculative in any way and it perfectly describes what he is able to do.--Piemanmoo 20:55, 28 April 2009 (EDT)

Consensus

I will add a consensus since many names are being tossed around. I will add the names I see, but feel free to add to it. This is the new consensus which means please only sign if you strongly oppose the name, not because there is a better one. This is to find out which names are not suitable. If two or more names have not been opposed then there will be another consensus to find the best one. If no consensus is reached this will remain Crazy grin man's ability. --posted by Laughingdevilboy Talk 13:00, 22 April 2009 (EDT)

  • Remember you're suppose to only sign what you oppose. With that said I deleted the ones that "agree" to take care of any future confusion.--OutbackZack 15:26, 22 April 2009 (EDT)

How much longer do we wait? It seems like a consensus has been made. --OutbackZack 21:27, 23 April 2009 (EDT)

  • It's been a little over 24 hours since the consensus check was called for. There are plenty of active members who don't log on every 24 hours. We should wait at least a few more days, say until Saturday or Sunday, and then go from there. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 22:26, 23 April 2009 (EDT)
    • Yeah we should wait a little longer. However, I will strike out the names that will not be used as it seems pointless at this moment in time to allow people to oppose names that will not be used and direct them at names that need discussion or consensus. --posted by Laughingdevilboy

Talk 15:39, 24 April 2009 (EDT)

      • It has been a few days since last comment, I think we should put the two names that have no opposition up for the old consensus. --posted by Laughingdevilboy

Talk 10:32, 25 April 2009 (EDT)

Clothes faking

  • User:Shadowulf1 15:03, 22 April 2009 (EDT) Really? No offense, but REALLY?
  • Opposed. Sounds too much like illusion. --OutbackZack 15:29, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
  • Opposed, sounds a bit silly Bosco13 13:12 23 April 2009 (GMT)

Clothes morphing

  • Opposed, for the sake that he used his ability on chains which not many people would understand as "clothes". --OutbackZack 15:29, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
  • Opposed, same reason as above Bosco13 13:12 23 April 2009 (GMT)

Object morphing

  • Opposed, ability has mainly to do with clothes, should stay about clothes. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 14:12, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
  • User:Shadowulf1 15:03, 22 April 2009 (EDT) Also opposed; it's just clothes (even when he manipulated the chains, it was to suit his clothes)
  • Agreed, it seems unlikely that the ability would only work on his clothes and not other objects Bosco13 13:12 23 April 2009 (GMT)
  • User:Shadowulf1 10:30, 23 April 2009 (EDT) He doesn't morph the chains, except to fit them for the purposes of his clothes (and assuming that it works for other objects is quite speculative).
  • Opposed for reasons above. --Crazylicious 09:16, 23 April 2009 (EDT)

Outfit morphing

  • Opposed, this doesn't seem to explain it. --Crazyaspie 16:18, 28 April 2009 (EDT)

Talk 17:06, 28 April 2009 (EDT)

      • Because he's morphing the chains. --Crazyaspie 23:34, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
        • That has already been discussed, see below under Outfit morphing. --posted by Laughingdevilboy

Talk 11:22, 29 April 2009 (EDT)

Illusion

  • Opposed, clearly not the same thing, he actually does what he does. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 14:12, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
  • Opposed, for the above reasons. --OutbackZack 15:29, 22 April 2009 (EDT)
  • Opposed, clearly a different ability. --Crazylicious 09:16, 23 April 2009 (EDT)
  • Opposed; not illusion, it changes his clothes.

Clothing transmutation

  • Opposed, for the sake that he used his ability on chains which not many people would understand as "clothes" --345tom 15:44, 26 April 2009 (EDT)
  • Opposed, this doesn't seem to explain it. --Crazyaspie 16:18, 28 April 2009 (EDT)

Talk 17:06, 28 April 2009 (EDT)

      • Because he's morphing the chains. --Crazyaspie 23:34, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
        • That has already been discussedm, see below under Outfit morphing. --posted by Laughingdevilboy

Talk 11:22, 29 April 2009 (EDT)

Melting

Voting on names not opposed

Since two names are clearly the favourite, we need to go back to our old ways. --posted by Laughingdevilboy Talk 10:32, 25 April 2009 (EDT)

  • Haha, I nearly forgot how these were done! --Radicell 10:48, 25 April 2009 (EDT)
    • We have consensus on two names at this point. Very nice. So really, we just need to see which one people like better. This calls for a traditional vote, everybody! Majority wins. Use the pound sign (#) so that a number is created next to your name so it's easier to tally the votes. Oh, and just as a preemptive strike, please don't add any new names to the mix. Also, discussions about names at this point are probably best in a new section, not in the voting section...just for cleanliness and ease of voting. :) Happy voting! -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 15:03, 26 April 2009 (EDT)
      • Congratulations, Heroes Wiki! We have successfully had our first consensus check with two "winners", and then conducted our first official vote. Way to go! Since both names were accepted by the community, I'll make them both redirect to this article. The winner of the vote (outfit morphing) will be the name of the page. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 20:43, 3 May 2009 (EDT)

Outfit morphing

  1. It more accurately describes the ability in my opinion. --Crazylicious 23:28, 26 April 2009 (EDT)
  2. Agreed, morphing suggests changing between outfits, while transmutation suggests transmuting clothing into other types of things. --Radicell 10:14, 27 April 2009 (EDT)
  3. I find this one better sounding if that makes sense. --OutbackZack 12:54, 27 April 2009 (EDT)
  4. I like this one better. --Elemental Manipulator [ U | T | C ] - When in doubt, ask BTE 01:51, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
  5. More wiki-ish --IronyUTC CH 16:07, 26 April 2009 (EDT)
  6. It extends beyond simply clothing, thus this one gets my vote. --Ricard Desi (t,c) 12:09, 29 April 2009 (EDT)
  7. It just sounds better. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 20:43, 3 May 2009 (EDT)

Clothing transmutation

  1. While I wouldn't be opposed to either name, this name fits better with existing abilities, and also sounds more formal. --Laudo 15:23, 26 April 2009 (EDT)
  2. I agree I like this name better. --posted by Laughingdevilboy

Talk 15:31, 26 April 2009 (EDT)

  1. I think this name sounds better, although I wouldn't object if outfit morphing was chosen instead. I just think this one seems more specific, for examlpe a straightjacket is less of an outfit and more of a piece of clothing.--Piemanmoo 20:57, 28 April 2009 (EDT)

Outfit morphing

  • "Outfit morphing" implies that he's transmuting his outfits into other outfits, "clothing transmutation" doesn't. --Radicell 10:48, 25 April 2009 (EDT)
    • However that's exactly what he has done. He has trasmutated one outfit into another. Never once has it used the ability on anyone or anything else besides his outfit. --OutbackZack 17:13, 25 April 2009 (EDT)
      • That is what Radicell is saying, he is not opposed to this name, this is the old consensus where we see if one ability it preferred by all, here you put forth as to why this name suits the ability. --posted by Laughingdevilboy

Talk 17:40, 25 April 2009 (EDT)

        • Oh my apologies. This consensus thing gets confusing at times haha.--OutbackZack 19:18, 25 April 2009 (EDT)
          • Totally understandable, I should have made it clearer when I started this lol. --posted by Laughingdevilboy

Talk 07:02, 26 April 2009 (EDT)

            • That's okay...we're still in the infancy stages of this new consensus check. I'll work on Help:Consensus checks after the season finale and when my graduate work settles down a bit... -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 15:51, 26 April 2009 (EDT)
              • User:Shadowulf1 09:42, 27 April 2009 (EDT) Perhaps you are unaware of synonyms, Radicell, but outfit morphing and clothing transmutation basically mean the same thing (clothing=outfit, morphing=transmutation)and besides, either one would be suitable...
                • So if there's another tie we could combine the two...Outfit transmutation haha :P --OutbackZack 09:44, 27 April 2009 (EDT)
                  • User:Shadowulf1 10:05, 27 April 2009 (EDT) No Idea, maybe we should. I just hope someone comes up with a good name or agrees on the names already thought of...
                • And perhaps, Shadowulf, you're unaware of the discussion that's been going on above. The only reason outfit morphing was brought up was because the term "outfit" covered the chains that the crazy grin man wore, while the term clothing does not. --Radicell 10:14, 27 April 2009 (EDT)
                  • Clothing does cover the chains by definition... it's just that some people think it implies that it does not.--MiamiVolts (talk) 10:47, 27 April 2009 (EDT)
                    • User:Shadowulf1 13:59, 27 April 2009 (EDT) Perhaps you forget, Radicell, clothing entails anything on the body. Perhaps he can change anything on the body which is why I said clothing tranmsmutation, which implies that he can change anything he wears into another outfit or the like.

Clothing transmutation

  • But above something has been opposed because of the use of chains not being clothes: should this nto be taken out for the same reasoning? --345tom 15:46, 26 April 2009 (EDT)
    • No, as mentioned above, the chains were considered part of his fake clothing by Anna.--MiamiVolts (talk) 15:53, 26 April 2009 (EDT)
      • You can just vote for the other name. As they both describe the ability, you can pick the other name as your favourite.--posted by Laughingdevilboy

Talk 16:21, 26 April 2009 (EDT)

        • User:Shadowulf1 17:57, 1 May 2009 (EDT) Oh, snap! He changes other people's clothes too! Looks like this name has even more logical meaning behind it now!

From New Interview

Crazy Tom can create short-term illusions over whatever he is touching. - Is this close enough to illusion to be put there, or is it as different as mental manipulation and neurocognitive deficit and therefore deserving to keep its own page? (By 'different as MM and ND' I mean almost the same, but illusion has a wider range/MM can select specific memories [I don't mean to stir up that debate again]) --Yamawhata? 19:20, 23 May 2009 (EDT)

Based on that, I'd say he has illusion, just limited to what he touches, if we listed Knox and Niki with the same ability, he can list him and Candice as well. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 20:45, 23 May 2009 (EDT)

  • Based on Tom's description, I think merging this with illusion is the right call.--MiamiVolts (talk) 21:23, 23 May 2009 (EDT)
  • I added a rename tag so it can be discussed. If there's no objections, I think would be okay to move it on Monday.--MiamiVolts (talk) 01:30, 24 May 2009 (EDT)
    • I completely disagree, casting illusions temorarily over objects is not the same as changing major objects including oneself for a long period of time, I don't think this is the same ability at all --IronyUTC CH 13:28, 24 May 2009 (EDT)
      • If we keep this separate, we'd have to split enhanced strength as well, Knox's ability is not the same as Niki's or Mohinder's, I'm all for that split, but if that stays as one ability, so should these. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 13:37, 24 May 2009 (EDT)
      • Could you please clarify, casting illusions temporarily over objects you touch is not even close to casting illusions temporarily over objects nearby? We don't know if Crazy Tom can keep up an illusion while unconscious, but Candace did the same thing with Simone's body (just over a longer distance) as he did with his clothes. --Yamawhata? 14:18, 24 May 2009 (EDT)
        • The interview said something along those lines, personally, I don't think they're the same ability --IronyUTC CH 14:19, 24 May 2009 (EDT)
          • I see no problem with merging. Thought it will need to be noted he has to touch an object to cast an illusion on it. I also think if we don't merge then possibly object illusion could be a possible name. --posted by Laughingdevilboy

Talk 14:35, 24 May 2009 (EDT)

            • Let's not worry about names until we have to. You know, I'm kinda down that they threw in info that made the entire consesus check we did down the drain. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 14:55, 24 May 2009 (EDT)
              • You're upset that we were given new information that clarifies the ability? -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 15:52, 25 May 2009 (EDT)
                • Not that, just that the effort everyone put in the consensus of this ability, this was the first ability named with the new consensus system right? Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 19:00, 25 May 2009 (EDT)
                  • That would be shockwave emission (which was later changed to seismic burst). Another great example of a descriptive name that is chosen by consensus, and then later replaced by a different name when we're given more information in a secondary source. To me, it's a great reminder that the writers and producers run this show, not the fans. Yes, I know Heroes Wiki has had some influence on the show (see Mohinder's research notes or Nathan's files), and that kind of retroactive canonization never sits well with me. I mean, once it's in the show, it's canon...but it seems kind of backwards to me that our site would determine canon. It should be the other way around. But it is what it is...however, we should always remember that when a writer clarifies something, that always takes precedence over anything we decide as a group. :) -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 20:26, 25 May 2009 (EDT)
                    • My point is that they could have made it clearer in the iStory, or given the ability name earlier. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 20:35, 25 May 2009 (EDT)
                      • Irony, neither Candice or Tom ever actually change anything; they just project illusions. And the amount of time they can use their ability for doesn't really matter in terms of defining what it is they do. Intuitive Empath, Tom explained in the followup interview that it was presented clearer in an earlier draft that they had much more circus content.--MiamiVolts (talk) 23:52, 25 May 2009 (EDT)
                        • Why did they limit the circus content again? Not to mix Rebel/Ellen in the same story line? Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 15:29, 26 May 2009 (EDT)
                          • A merge with Illusion is perfect. (Physical contact should be noted for Tom, though.) -- Psilaq R.- U -T- C- 16:08, 26 May 2009 (EDT)
                          • Right, so that they could focus more on Rebel's "other team".--MiamiVolts (talk) 16:40, 26 May 2009 (EDT)