Talk:Freezing/Archive 1

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Definition

  • I suggest the best definition of "cryokinesis" or "ice generation" is actually "the ability to remove heat from matter, reducing its temperature and possibly causing it to freeze". --Ted C 12:29, 2 January 2007 (EST)

Name of Power

The name of this power (though much is still unknown about it) has come into question. It was called "Cryokinesis", from Greek "cryo-" (cold/freezing) and "kinesis" (movement). This is a fairly logial word creation, though it is just that: a creation. The name of the power was recently changed to "Ice generation". Are there any opinions about the name of the power? Any new suggestions? Personally, I don't really care one way or the other. I thought "Cryokinesis" sounded cool, but "Ice generation" is probably more exact (though I think it also might describe my freezer's superability). Anybody want to weigh in? - RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 22:15, 23 December 2006 (EST)

I think it definitely needs a new name at this point since ice is just a side-effect of freezing water... and the power is more likely to be related to freezing in general than being limited to freezing water. At the same time I dont think "cryokinesis" is an actual word. Wikipedia uses "cold manipulation" which I personally think is sufficient for the time being until we hear more about it (and whether it is indeed a separate power and not a side-effect). (Admin 16:37, 26 December 2006 (EST))
Cold manipulation sounds good ... for now. It gets my vote. - RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 16:45, 26 December 2006 (EST)
Ice generation would actually be less accurate than cryokinesis, which does not necessarily include the ability to make ice appear. I consider "cryokinesis" to be as real a word as "pyrokinesis", which is not all that unusual; it's usually familiar to the comic book crowd, if not the general public. Cryokinesis is specifically the ability to remotely reduce temperatures, possibly causing objects to freeze. "Ice generation" sounds more like the ability to create ice from nothing. --Ted C 10:08, 28 December 2006 (EST)
I agree that ice generation is less accurate. Unfortunately there's a bit of disagreement on the use of cryokinesis since it doesn't appear to be a real word even if it's commonly used in the comic book crowd. As a result I think the best option at this point is to go with "cold manipulation". While it doesn't have the appeal of a word like cryokinesis it has the benefit of being sufficiently general. Hopefully at some point the show will give a name to this ability and we'll be able to put this to rest. :) (Admin 10:34, 28 December 2006 (EST))
We also have to remember that it's not just the comic book crowd that will be checking out the site. And, really, we need to be as accurate and legitimate as possible (well, as possible as you can be when you're talking about people that can fly, read minds, and manipulate space and time). Cold manipulation is both general and descriptive, and it is a legitimate term. - RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 11:14, 28 December 2006 (EST)
<rant>The complaint is that "cryokinesis", "chronokinesis", and "pyrokinesis" are neologisms. Personally, I think worrying overmuch about whether the OED has officially sanctioned a word for public use by allowing it to grace its illustrious pages is a form of small-minded intellectual snobbery that requires that you believe a language consists of what's written in a book and not what comes from the lips of its speakers. The same people seem to think that "standard usage" is the same as "grammar"; it's merely rules worship for the sake of rules worship without any consideration for the fact that a language is a living, breathing, growing entity, and that its speakers are its authors, not its servants. I say this, mind you, as a notorious grammar Nazi whose initial interest in Wikis was that I could at last obsessively correct errors in the text I read. There's no question that these are "real words", since speakers and writers use them and listeners and readers understand them every day. The whole question is whether they are recognized words, which seems a fairly pedantic concern to me at least when describing phenomena that don't actually exist outside of comic books and television. It's like complaining that Elvish isn't composed of "real words". Bear in mind that, unlike Wikipedia, we make no claims of being an encyclopaedia, and our subject matter is innately the product of fantasy.</rant>--Hardvice (talk) 13:07, 28 December 2006 (EST)
How about Freeze or Freezing -Level 18:02, 28 December 2006 (EST)
  • Just for the sake of argument, I'm going to throw out there one more time the option that we just get rid of Cryokinice generation entirely until we have a better idea who uses it, how it works, and oh yeah, whether it actually exists or not. We're spending a lot of effort worrying about a power we've never seen used.--Hardvice (talk) 12:11, 28 December 2006 (EST)
    • I think we have reasonable evidence that such a power exists, since I know of no better explanation for how James Walker and a police officer ended up frozen solid without being in a freezer or a tank of liquid nitrogen. Given the circumstances of James Walker's death, I think it's also reasonable to conclude that Sylar has this power. I will cheerfully agree, however, that we're getting excessively wrapped up in semantics. I like "cryokinesis" because it's concise and it fits the comic-book feel of the show, but I'm not going to engage in an editing war over it. --Ted C 15:22, 28 December 2006 (EST)
      • Honestly, this power (and everything else Sylar has been shown doing) *could* be explained with his telekinesis - in this case, slowing molecules down until they're frozen. I agree that it's very likely Sylar has a seperate cold-related power, but it's not proven yet. Also, the word "cryokinesis" is terrible - it means, literally, "cold movement", which isn't a very accurate phrase. I would suggest "cryogenesis" instead, which means "cold creation". Pyrokinesis is somewhat different, since fire is something that can realistically be moved. unless 19:50, 8 January 2007 (EST)
        • I've addressed that on the Theories page. --Ted C 09:20, 9 January 2007 (EST)
  • The suffix -kinesis should only be used on powers that involve the motion of something. Pyrokinesis is fine, since it involves moving flames around through space the way telekinesis works with matter. But cryokinesis doesn't work as well for this power, since what we've seen is the making of cold, not the purposeful movement of it through space. The only movement of cold this power seems to involve is the natural conduction of the cold that is created. Cryogenesis might be a more appropriate word creation.--E rowe 22:10, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

Uses

  • Didn't Sylar freeze and kill Charlie Andrews, it was a sutle touch and I will go back and watch it again to make sure but I am pretty sure she walked in the back and started using the can opener then she was frozen with her head cut open.--Xhadow 00:13, 6 February 2007 (EST)
    • She didn't appear frozen, however she stopped moving once sylar cut her head open. I believe it was intended to show shock just moments before she collapsed dead. (Admin 00:17, 6 February 2007 (EST))
      • Yeah, I don't remember any freezing. And in the pictures, she certainly doesn't appear to be frozen. Compare her dead photo with the photos in the gallery on this page of the FBI agent and James Walker. — RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 00:35, 6 February 2007 (EST)

Cryokinesis v. Ice Generation: Round Two, Fight!

We have this listed as "cryokinesis" some places and "ice generation" others. We should pick one or the other. My money's on "cryokinesis" since "ice generation" just isn't very descriptive in light of James Walker (though it would cover the scene in Road Kill.) Thoughts?--Hardvice (talk) 14:34, 13 February 2007 (EST)

  • I'm a supporter of "cryokinesis" over "ice generation". It's not the most descriptive term for the power, but it's a heckuva lot better than "ice generation" — that's what my freezer does. So what if it's a neologism? It's a made up power anyway! — RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 14:47, 13 February 2007 (EST)
    • "Cryokinesis" would be a better parallel for "pyrokinesis". If we don't like that, there's always "Freezing". --Ted C 15:39, 13 February 2007 (EST)
      • I'd take "freezing" over "ice generation", but "cryokinesis" over "freezing".--Hardvice (talk) 15:43, 13 February 2007 (EST)
        • Should we go ahead and make the move back to "Cryokinesis", then? (I like it better, too.) --Ted C 17:15, 13 February 2007 (EST)
          • Oh, please, please, please ... — RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 17:18, 13 February 2007 (EST)
            • i support cryo, i dont think that ice is gernerated Theturtleguy 21:24, 31 March 2007 (EDT)
  • Oops. I put a note above that should be here. I think cryogenesis captures the meaning better than cryokinesis with a word that is just as succinct.--E rowe 22:15, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

Obtained from whom?

Mohinder says nine people from the List are dead, including Charlie and James Walker. This means at most seven people died pre-James, or at most six people between Brian Davis and James Walker. David is only one of them, and the pictures Mr. Bennet shows Eden are only (possibly) two more (they could have been killed after James, after all). It seems speculative to say that Sylar probably got cryokinesis from one of these three. There are at least three and as many as five others he could have obtained it from.--Hardvice (talk) 21:18, 31 March 2007 (EDT)

  • I could have sworn he said six people from the list were dead, including Charlie and James. Like, I would have bet money on it. Wandering off to check now.--Leshia 21:24, 31 March 2007 (EDT)
  • Aaaaaand I'm back, he definately said six people. So he pretty much had to have gotten it from either David or one of the two people in Bennet's pictures.--Leshia 21:27, 31 March 2007 (EDT)
    • Right, I realized I was wrong right after I posted. Still -- the man in the picture could be David. In any case, this is better off in Notes, where it can be explained, rather than under characters.--Hardvice (talk) 22:37, 31 March 2007 (EDT)
    • Well, if there were 6 dead from the list, including Walker and Charlie, then that leaves four three candidates (if Brian Davis is indeed on the list). So there's "David", the two people in the pictures (one of which may be David), and at the most one more if David is the pictured fellow in the file Bennet has. --Bob 23:03, 31 March 2007 (EDT)
      • Even though it's pretty good reasoning and probably true, it's still unknown exactly how many people Sylar has killed. What if he bumped into another evolved human and stole a power? Or what if when Sylar killed Chandra, Chandra was carrying a name in his pocket that wasn't on his list, and Sylar went and killed that person and took his power? I'm just saying we're speculating that we know the final amount of evolved humans that Sylar killed. — RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 10:27, 1 April 2007 (EDT)
  • In light of how Sylar killed Claire in Five Years Gone I'm reconsidering if it wasn't indeed James Walker who had this power. He's able to pretty much immobilize people with telekinesis as seen with Future Claire and perhaps even Charlie as she was being killed. I'm not confident Sylar's power can freeze someone quickly enough to stop them mid-bite, but we've seen how quickly he can do it with telekinesis. He may have immobilized James telekinetically, taken the power from him, and then frozen him while testing out his new power. Furthermore James's eyes and facial expression seem to me to look more like he was still able to move his face when he was killed which is more inline with the death being caused by having his head cut open rather than being frozen. Of course I may be jumping to conclusions that weren't being considered when they setup the prop. Also I consider this to be purely speculative, but I just wanted to toss it out here and see if there were any obvious holes in this theory. I find it equally possible and perhaps even a little simpler to believe that he was indeed able to freeze James quickly enough and that the power originated from someone else. Hopefully Molly will set things straight for us! (Admin 17:11, 18 May 2007 (EDT))
    • I think he definitely could have held him still telekinetically while he froze him to death, but it still seems like a stretch for him to hold him telekinetically the whole time that he's cutting his head open and eating his brain doing whatever he does. Why bother holding his dead body in that pose while stealing his power--just to make a cool frozen stature when you're done? That seems unlikely. If James had had cryokinesis, what more likely would have happened is that he'd grab him telekinetically and cut, drop the body, steal the brain, and then practice cryo. We also have to consider the possibility that Sylar may not have been able to do two TK tricks at once yet ... he hasn't really done that yet in the present, and Future Sylar has five years extra experience with his powers. In any case, I still think it's extremely unlikely that James had cryo, for all the reasons you've stated and more. Not impossible, just extraordinarily unlikely.--Hardvice (talk) 17:19, 18 May 2007 (EDT)
      • No holes that I see. I think it's always been possible, just highly unlikely. — RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 17:20, 18 May 2007 (EDT)
        • This interview seems to imply that it wasn't his power, but their answer is not very clear. -Lөvөl 18:00, 18 May 2007 (EDT)
  • It would be impossible for James Walker to be the possessor of cryokinesis. His body holds all the proof you need. James Walker was completely clean, in respect to blood . There wasn't any blood on him, unlike his wife, Mrs. Walker. There is a possibility, although slim to none, that he was immobilized by telekinesis. Even if that was the case, there would have been blood all over his body, especially on his skull. Just look at Charlie, Jackie, Dale, Zane, and Peter. However, since there wasn't, it means that Sylar froze James Walker before removing his brain, leaving the victim bloodless because of its frozen state.--Ice Vision 19:54, 18 May 2007 (EDT)

New Picture 2 weeks

  • From how the guys at Heroes described it I think we might need to insert a new picture in the future! haha. Jason Garrick 18:48, 25 April 2007 (EDT)

I really don't like the sound of:

"Ability to remove heat from matter."... I think something like "The ability to spontaneously freeze things" (as rough as that sounds) would be better...although, Sylar uses it in his future-peter fight, so I think there is more to it. Like maybe he was throwing ice. But since that is only speculation we can't use that... but since we DID see him prepare to use it, I think it would be ignorant to say he was going to "remove the heat from Peter." >_<--Riddler 10:43, 20 May 2007 (EDT)

    • Freezing something is removing heat from it. Heat is a form of energy in matter, and freezing is manipulation of that energy (as in dropping it). Sounds accurate to me.--Bob 11:10, 20 May 2007 (EDT)
      • Then to keep consistency, we would have to make Pyrokinesis or Induced "The Ability to add heat to matter"... which sounds stupid to me. --Riddler 11:25, 20 May 2007 (EDT)
        • Pyrokinesis is more along the lines of creating a flame, which isn't just "adding heat" so much as igniting/controlling open flames. Adding heat could be a number of things. But the removal of heat to a certain temperature is known only as freezing.--Bob 11:29, 20 May 2007 (EDT)
    • How about induced radiactivity then? Though it involves other things, he's melted things and burned things... by adding heat. At the same time, we saw Sylar prepare to use it against future Peter, and beyond that we saw lots of flashing lights behind the door, so I truely think it's not an accurate description of the power. I don't think it's plausible that the whole showdown was Sylar walking up to Peter to freeze him.--Riddler 11:32, 20 May 2007 (EDT)
      • Again, radioactivity can give off energy in the form of heat, light, etc. It's very specific in its description. With cryokinesis, the only accurate description is the reduction of heat in matter, whether that matter be air, water, asphalt or a sword. I'm not going to speculate over a battle that wasn't even shown on screen. From what has been aired, Sylar can reduce the heat in an object to where it is frozen. Matter that is frozen has lost heat in one form or another. That's as simple as physics and chemistry can make it.--Bob 11:48, 20 May 2007 (EDT)
  • I don't mind "remove heat from matter" at all, but I don't see anything wrong with simply "freeze things" either. Perhaps we could use one description in the infobox and the other in the article space. They both seem fine to me. — RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 14:01, 20 May 2007 (EDT)