Talk:Cyberpathy

From Heroes Wiki
Jump to: navigation, search
Ability Naming Conventions
The following sources are used for determining evolved human ability names, in order:
Episodes
2. Near-canon Sources Webisodes,
Graphic Novels,
iStories,
Heroes Evolutions
3. Secondary Sources Episode commentary,
Interviews,
Heroes: Survival
4. Common names for abilities Names from other works
5. Descriptions of abilities Descriptions
6. Possessor's name If no non-speculative
description is possible

Note: The highlighted row represents the level of the source used to determine cyberpathy's name.
Source/Explanation
EPIC explicitly names this ability "cyberpathy" (Under the Mask).

Scope

Hm, I wonder if her power allows her to automatically break cifers, or if she can only read plaintext messages. Unfortunately, I guess the writers don't have a clue and couldn't care less, but being able to read an electronic signal IRL only helps you to do stuff against the cripplingly incompetent. Well, we'll see. -- Cuardin 11:14, 17 January 2007 (EST)

  • Well, if she has the ability to read email, that assumes she has the capability to (1) sense electronic transmissions (EM waves) (2) sample the AC to digital in her brain (3) convert all that binary information to 8-bit bytes, and (4) decode the message protocols and/or de-encrypt the content on the fly (boy would the NSA love that). Oh yeah, and be able to do it in reverse, since she can "send text messages". Almost all modern programs have at least some sort of encryption (run-length encoding at the minimum), not to mention the cell phone system itself has quite a few levels. Plus, if she can understand any message in the world, that means she's doing ASCII code value translations (to written language) in her head. After all that, she can still de-obfuscate the language of "leet speak". Maybe it's better if we don't look behind the curtain  :) --Orne 12:04, 17 January 2007 (EST)
    • I agree, this discussion belongs here, and not in the article space, since it's speculation. But still, spec is fun -- I think it's all automatic, kind of like the way we catch a ball, and do all the trajectory and velocity computations automatically in our head. It's not conscious thought. In addition, Hana is apparently able to read understand other languages (some messages are in Greek, Russian, and Latin), though she probably doesn't have training in all of those languages. It seems to be a very automatic thing that she just "understands" in a non-conscious way ... - RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 12:14, 17 January 2007 (EST)
      • Sounds like she has a lot in common with the Marvel character Cypher, who could intuitively translate languages, with the added bonus of being able receive and transmit in the EM spectrum. --Ted C 12:46, 17 January 2007 (EST)
      • Oh.. my god.. I just read about this character and her power from this site after seeing Godsend the other night. Having been a CS major, my mind is hurting. I wonder if this is what my bio/genetics/chem friends feel like whenever they watch stuff like CSI (or any show using the field of genetics for story or technobabble). Regarding protocols, let's not forget this girl snatches data packets and resequences them in the correct order.. >_< The problem is that the mere portrayal of what her powers do demonstrates a complete misperception of how such technology works and how electronic data is stored and transmitted. Appropriate suspension of disbelief for this requires the viewer to have a sufficient level of ignorance of <some field> (although I suppose in many senses, that's par for entertainment). The bigger problem I see is that, being about superheroes, the show targets some portion of geeks who may be knowledgeable enough to find themselves really turned off. I know I'm quite worried now about whether this char is gonna totally throw off my ability to ignore and enjoy the show for its real merits. For me at least, this is many orders of magnitude worse than Sylar's "intuitive aptitude" for understanding the mechanics of a complex system when he can neither see, hear, touch, or observe the system. Glue 09:07, 28 January 2007 (EST)
        • This power further adds questions of if she's limited by languages (can she only read things originally written in English), her abilities to bypass encryptions and security measures, if she can "view" pictures, what the bandwidth of the brain is, the RAM and scratch space of a brain, etc. As an IT person, this power really bothers me as I can't "just accept it" easily. Kail Ceannai 01:02, 20 February 2007 (EST)
        • Oh. I just think it's a fun power. Maybe I'm ignorant. :) - RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 14:06, 28 January 2007 (EST)
          • Ehh, that's no fault of yours (or most viewers, either) hehehe.

            Wireless Transmission After thinking about how to best explain it, I think I've come up with an analogy. Text isn't stored as the visual symbols that humans recognize but as binary sequences, 0s and 1s. The average person knows this much. So imagine a text message converted into a long sequence of 0s and 1s and written on paper. Except instead of a sheet of paper it's a really long ticker tape strip of paper. Now cut this strip of paper into mostly equal smaller lengths (but they don't have to be), then stick some more 0s and 1s at the beginning and maybe the end as well saying how long each strip of paper is supposed to be and giving some clue as to in what order each piece goes in relative to the other pieces. Now repeat this process of cutting the resulting pieces into smaller pieces with new header info for each layer of protocol which may occur. Now take all these pieces of paper and toss them in the air for the receiving end to pick up and all put back together. Also, the pieces of paper fly through the air in a flash on the order of hundredths or thousandths of a second. That's pretty much what Hana would be "seeing" -- subliminal, out-of-order fragments of binary.

            Development of Use of Power The upshot of all this is that Hana's power would, at the beginning at least, only allow the signals to be interpreted as nothing more than incomprehensible and near instantaneous flashes of static. The real obstacle to what the writers want is that Hana's brain suddenly has to become very highly structured in order to duplicate all the functions performed by various electronics communications devices. Hana being "trained" to be able to do this would be as much of a misnomer as an abacus being "trained" to become a cellular/PDA. Even if such training were possible, she'd have to undergo all new training for every protocol/standard with which she needs to interact, first learn how the protocol operates, then practice the ability to get her mind to interpret data that way (to say nothing of being able to switch back and forth).

            Plausability Intercepting simple, short messages with minimal protocols of transmission (something simple perhaps like SMS, 160 characters of 7 or 8 bits each) would perhaps be the most believable ability for her to have, similar to how some obsessed hackers have practiced reading text in its binary/hex format. Beyond this, any larger messages quickly cause the complexity needed to process the data to increase by orders of magnitude. Poor Hana would be "training" for multiple lifetimes just to be able to make even the tiniest sense of today's communication technologies.

            Portrayal Hana's power wouldn't behave anything like suddenly visualizing text in the air unbidden such as depicted in the graphic novels, but more like the sudden realization that the eternally perceived flashes of static actually do have some unrecognized meaning to them and then having to go through extensive "training" to figure out what it is, how to possibly begin deciphering it a piece at a time then finally practicing the ability to do so. This decryption process would also not be a casual "always on" ability as it would take effort. This would require Hana to know ahead of time that some particular transmission out of the many she is likely to hear was of significance. She would also suffer from the same types of interference that affect said wireless transmissions: microwaves, hairdryers, flourescent lights. =)

            The most believable portrayal of this power would be like what Peter was perceiving towards the end of Distractions, just before "Claude" punched him out. In fact, I'm holding out some small hope that the creators of the show managed to get in contact with someone with any tech knowledge and that Hana's power will be portrayed more like this. In fact, there's even a possible consequence that because most of the utility of this power is in the translation rather than in the interception, simply stealing transception (Sylar) or mimicking it (Peter) would tend to prove fairly useless without all of Hana's required extensive training to make any sense of the signals. However, Sylar would probably be able to develop that skill fairly quickly with some study similar to how he studied brain physiology extensively as part of however his voodoo power theft works.--Glue 02:04, 12 February 2007 (EST)

            • I get the impression that her power also includes the ability to decipher codes, languages, syntaxes, and protocols automatically, which she was already doing for the Mossad before the AWI got hold of her. Yes, that's a big leap of faith, but it's no sillier than Sylar's power—if he can intuitively understand systems, she can intuitively interpret the signals she receives. From her vantage point, she just perceives the communications as communications (as depicted in the graphic novels); her brain (and her power) are doing all the decoding and encoding. I didn't get the impression she was overwhelmed by the task of reassembling and interpreting all of the data ... she was just overwhelmed by the volume of it. It would be like being blind from birth and suddenly getting sight all at once. Any training she needed might not have been to learn specific protocols or standards, but to fine-tune her reception and transmission so she could focus on just the communications she wanted to.--Hardvice (talk) 02:26, 12 February 2007 (EST)
              • Hmm. Well that explanation is at least internally consistent, even if utterly impossible due to the nature of the often arbitrary conventions in telecomm standards and protocols. Though, I guess it's no less impossible than physiologically defying gravity at will and flying without wings, a mechanism of flight that's otherwise never appeared anywhere in the evolutionary tree of life. =) Admin was right -- investigating consequences of powers, or the components of them too, I guess, along with their relation to the actual mechanisms of evolution, is largely an exercise in futility. --Glue 03:27, 12 February 2007 (EST)
                • It is, afterall, a fictional television show and not a documentary. :) Looking too deeply into the mechanics will usually fail. Remember, whenever something doesn't make sense "a wizard did it." (Admin 04:06, 12 February 2007 (EST))
                  • Hahahaha, yesyes. >_< Although this can get minorly irksome when the writers can always get away with the approach of "Hiro and Peter and Matt are adversely affected by the nature and consequences of using their powers," yet the fans/audience can't equally ask, "Then why aren't Ted or Nathan or anyone else adversely affected by the quirks of their own powers?" I know whatever is canon goes but it's just a minor complaint since the audience ends up being led around by the nose unable to reasonably ask when the intrusions of reality can be expected to pose a problem for a character or not. Don't get me wrong, of course. In spite of any criticisms and faults I could ever find with the show, I find it to be one of the best series I've seen in years and one of the only reasons I bother to turn on the TV these days. --Glue 05:36, 12 February 2007 (EST)
    • Well, there is a big difference between transcoding encoding-schemes and decrypting cyphers. Translation is not trivial, though. As for the SMS, I have reason to believe that they are sent unencrypted. If she intercepts a phonecall though, that is another matter. They are at least slightly encrypted.
  • A photo of Hana has been leaked -> here. I suspect it's similar to what they plan to show us during DEAL OR NO DEAL.--Yoshie 10:01, 22 January 2007 (EST)
    • It wasn't really "leaked". It's from a teaser commercial that aired during last week's 'Deal or No Deal'. The commercial referred to her as a "new hero, hell-bent on revenge". The main discussion so far is here.--Hardvice (talk) 11:14, 22 January 2007 (EST)

Micah

How is Micah's power related to this? I am putting a see also category at the bottom of each page -Zeckalpha 19:51, 25 February 2007 (EST)

Rename?

After reviewing the Activatingevolution.org wiki's list of Anomalic abilities, I've seen some shorter names for some of the powers we have listed here. Electronic Data Transception, now that's a long one. How about: Cyberkinesis? Seems more fitting, shorter, and better describes this ability as mental and whatnot. --Aero Zeppelin 04:15, 12 March 2007 (EDT)

  • Yes to Cyberkinesis. -Aero Zeppelin 04:15, 12 March 2007 (EDT)
    • What an awkward and misleading name. 'Kinesis' means "movement or activity". "Cyber" means computer. She doesn't move computers. She sends and receives (or transceives) wireless data. You can at least make an argument that "pyrokinesis" and "cryokinesis" make a certain degree of sense, but "cyberkinesis" has nothing to do with her power ... even if you allow for the fact that "kinesis" means "movement" and not simply "cool superpower", it still sounds more like Micah's power than Hana's. Why would we go with a name that gives you no idea what she can actually do? Also, most of the articles on Activatingevolution.org are a bit unreliable (though entertaining), so using them as a source is ill advised.--Hardvice (talk) 04:46, 12 March 2007 (EDT)
      • Brilliant. I agree, I'm not a fan of "cyberkinesis". "Electronic data transception" is a bit long, but it's perfectly descriptive. If you don't like piping/typing it, you can also use "EDT". — RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 06:49, 12 March 2007 (EDT)
        • I like EDT, it describes Hana's ability with accuracy. Besides, those power names on ae.org aren't canon. Heroe 10:56, 12 March 2007 (EDT)
Where does electronic data transception come from anyway? Therequiembellishere 20:15, 18 November 2007 (EST)
  • Even though we came up with the name before Hana's dossier was revealed, the name fits nicely with the near-canon description of her power. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 20:41, 18 November 2007 (EST)

im so confused Electronic communication that name confuses me personally , the previous name sounded way better--Zoga78 19:28, 18 April 2008 (EDT)

  • Hana could wirelessly receive and transmit electronic data so her ability is electronic communication. The new name is listed in her dossier in the Company database.--MiamiVolts (talk) 19:36, 18 April 2008 (EDT)
    • Why was the name changed ? Electronic Data Transception sounded the best. There have been no official canon references to Electronic communication right? -- DarthYotho 19:01, 8 May 2008 (EDT)

Richard Drucker

Added Richard Drucker, as his company profile says he can. Should we change the "Hana can"'s to a pronoun?

Rename

Hana and Drucker's case files at primatechpaper.com list their abilities as digital communication and electronic communication respectively. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 17:53, 7 February 2008 (EST)

  • Either is probably acceptable. Do we have any reason to treat them as separate abilities, or is a note on the article sufficient? In any case, it should definitely be one of the two, since they're explicitly named in a near-canon source.--Hardvice (talk) 17:55, 7 February 2008 (EST)
    • Without looking up sources, I'm pretty sure there are a few places where it's been said that Hana and Drucker have the same ability. It's listed on their data files as being "similar abilities", in any case. I'd rather not make two pages for two abilities, I think a note is fine. As for the name, I think "electronic communication" is probably better since it seems like it would cover digital communication, but I'm not sure "digital communication" would cover electronic communication. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 18:00, 7 February 2008 (EST)
      • I agree completely. A redirect and a note is fine. That way, we can even list the powers differently on each character's page if it's deemed necessary.--Hardvice (talk) 18:13, 7 February 2008 (EST)
  • To note, the files also list "cyberpathy" and "technokinesis." However I don't like either of those. -- Lulu (talk) 21:23, 7 February 2008 (EST)
    • Where do they list those names? -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 21:28, 7 February 2008 (EST)
      • In the bottom right of Hana's diagram. Drucker's too. -- Lulu (talk) 21:30, 7 February 2008 (EST)
  • Another difference that should be noted in the article is that although Hana's file says she can intercept, understand, and generate wireless signals, Drucker's only mentions intercepting and understanding, nothing about signal generation for him. --Maelwys 09:59, 8 February 2008 (EST)
    • Drucker´s profile from the old Assignment Tracker did say he could generate signals. They probably overlooked that when the site was updated.--Referos 14:33, 11 February 2008 (EST)

Cyberpathy Redirect

Do we need this? --Hero!(talk)(contribs) 18:04, 25 February 2008 (EST)

Hey!

--N/A 22:47, 17 August 2008 (EDT)-What about Telemetry for the name of the ability? Telemetry is the science of automatic measurement and transmission of data by wire, radio, or other means from remote sources, as from space vehicles, to receiving stations for recording and analysis. This sounds fairly similar to, if not the same as, what Richard Drucker and Hana Gitelman are capable of doing---sending and receiving signals (but its not by tech, so it would have to be psychic telemetry or maybe you would specify telemetry as a different type than defined by the dictionary)

  • Sorry, the name for this ability was determined using the naming convention for abilities on this site. Telemetry does not follow the policy on how we determine ability names here. (Admin 22:55, 17 August 2008 (EDT))

Electronic communication vs Digital communication

  • Maybe this sounds stupid, but it's two different things. First of all Hana can intercept, generate and interpret electronic wireless transmissions (not hear them) and only wireless not digital. And for Drucker he can also interpret digital, not only wireless and besides he hear communications, he cannot intercept them according to the assignment tracker. I could be a fool to think that way but just wondering how people thought about it. --Futurepeter 08:33, 22 October 2008 (EDT)
No, he can. The original tracker stated it and it was lost in the translation. Therequiembellishere 19:21, 22 October 2008 (EDT)

Cyberpathy

E.P.I.C calls it "cyberpathy" which is canon while "electronic communication" is near-canon, so if I understand the naming convention box, this needs to get renamed, right?--Potatoes (talk) 05:36, 2 October 2015 (EDT)

  • Yes, that's correct. Primatechpaper said that electronic communication and cyberpathy are the same thing. Hana's power should still be listed as "digital communication", and Drucker's should still be "electronic communication", but the power name needs to be moved to "cyberpathy" since that's a canon name. I'll take care of it now. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 21:51, 4 October 2015 (EDT)