Talk:Telescopic vision

From Heroes Wiki
(Redirected from Talk:Enhanced vision)
Jump to: navigation, search
Ability Naming Conventions
The following sources are used for determining evolved human ability names, in order:
1. Canon Sources Episodes
Webisodes,
Graphic Novels,
iStories,
Heroes Evolutions
3. Secondary Sources Episode commentary,
Interviews,
Heroes: Survival
4. Common names for abilities Names from other works
5. Descriptions of abilities Descriptions
6. Possessor's name If no non-speculative
description is possible

Note: The highlighted row represents the level of the source used to determine telescopic vision's name.
Source/Explanation
"Telescopic vision" is explicitly listed on Donna's Assignment Tracker profile at primatechpaper.com.

Name

Let's Snow this. Donna says "Now I've never fired a gun before, but apparently, Telescopic Vision? Very Helpful. --  Seclusion  talk / contribs 05:46, 15 April 2008 (EDT)

  • It's always nice of the writers to give us a name, no? :D --NellaBishop 06:29, 15 April 2008 (EDT)
    • As much as I like the name, I think she was refering to one aspect of her power. Perhaps Enhanced Vision would be more precise, since she can both see in the dark and from great distances.--Piemanmoo 06:50, 15 April 2008 (EDT)
    • She called it Telescopic Vision; We call it Telescopic vision. It doesn't really matter what the power specifics are. --  Seclusion  talk / contribs 06:52, 15 April 2008 (EDT)
      • Why can't she just have Night Vision and Telescopic Vision, since as far as I know telescopic vision doesn't encompass the ability to see in the dark (and people can have more than one ability at a time). The way I read it, she was only referring to the abily to see great distances. It's almost like if she would shoot beams of heat through her eyes and say (Hmm, heat vision, what an awesome yet destructive power) but it would have nothing to do with her being able to see in the dark. What I'm saying is perhaps we need two power articles. One for telescopic vision and one for Night Vision. Because there might be someone who can only see in the dark, and yet it would seem to be telescopic vision the way it is now. It might just be one general power that includes all powers of vision but still I'd rather have Night Vision have it's own article than be merged with another power. --Dman dustin 07:15, 15 April 2008 (EDT)
        • You are completely missing the point. If they give us a name, it doesn't matter what the power does. We call it what they give us. --  Seclusion  talk / contribs 07:33, 15 April 2008 (EDT)
          • We should absolutely use the names of powers when given to us...but if a power has more than one aspect, using the name of only one aspect to describe the entire power does not work. Hiro's power is an excellent example: "time traveling" and "teleportation" have both been used to describe what he can do, but it would be inaccurate to refer to his entire power by either one of those names. The Haitian's power has a similar issue. In Donna's case, she said that as she grew older, she was able to focus her sight more, and she called this telescopic vision. That has nothing to do with being able to see in the dark, which I guess would be night vision. The only thing these two aspects have in common is vision. I would think that a name like "enhanced vision" would be better suited to describe her entire power. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 08:05, 15 April 2008 (EDT)
            • (Note I was still writing this when Ryan posted, sorry about that) If a person displays Super strength, telekinesis, Alchemy, and Elasticity but uses Super Strength and calls it that, with no mention of the other names for yhe person's other powers, we would have an article called "Super Strength" with "the ability to move things with your mind, change things to gold,the ability to stretch, deform, expand, and contract one's body, and the ability to exert greater than normal physical force"? Simply put she said her vision got better, and she was able to focus her vision like being able to read from a distance or focus on the idividual details of a snoflake. Then she (after saying that) says "Now I've never fired a gun before, but apparently, Telescopic Vision? Very Helpful". None of which does it mention Night Vision. Look even at the Night Vision Binoculars it is the same principle. It's not just called one thing (Night Vision eyes (or whatever indicates it can just see in night vision), or just Binoculars) but has the ability to do other things, but it's name (Night Vision Binoculars) indicates it can do both. Now since she did say "Telescopic Vision" we can't name the ability "Night Vision Binoculars" or call her "Night Vision Binoculars Girl" but all I'm asking is we have two separate articles one for "Telescopic Vision" and one for "Night Vision." --Dman dustin 08:18, 15 April 2008 (EDT)
              • Now just in case, some one says that "It doesn't matter what the description says as long as someone names" (again) and give what ever reason. This is a different case, because before it only involved one power, this obviously involves two. Now the only thing I'm disputing is she actually named her (Night Vision) "Telescopic Vision." Because like I said, the way I read the novel, she only called "being able to see from a great distance" Telscopic Vision since her shooting the gun would involve that. Edit:It looks like I was beaten to the punch. --Dman dustin 08:18, 15 April 2008 (EDT)
  • They give us the name flat out: "telescopic vision". Whether this includes the fact she can also see in the dark is a bit irrelevant since near-canon sources takes over descriptions of abilities. In Hiro's naming case, they flat out say he can "manipulate time and space", which gave us space-time manipulation. I think it should stay as telescopic vision. --NellaBishop 09:28, 15 April 2008 (EDT)
    • Not if she didn't refer her Night Vision as "Telescopic Vision." (which is the main problem leaving it as Telescopic Vision) It would be considered a separate power in that case. And like I said she only called "Being able to see great distances" Telescopic Vision not the Night Vision aspect of her Ability/Abilities. --Dman dustin 09:35, 15 April 2008 (EDT)
  • I reckon some of you people just argue for the sake of it. --  Seclusion  talk / contribs 09:45, 15 April 2008 (EDT)
    • Not this time around actually. The real problem is while they call it 'Telescopic Vision' a telescope offers no natural advantage in the darkness unless you zoom in on something that's glowing. Donna claimed to be able to read in the dark under the covers without a flashlight. When a power has more than one aspect you try to make the name as vague as possible to allow for it, thus 'Enhanced Vision.' --PeterDawson 11:39, 15 April 2008 (EDT)
      • Completely agree. This is more like the Haitian's ability or Hiro's ability--we have an explicit near-canon name, but only for one aspect of the ability. Since nothing about "telescopic vision" covers night vision, and we know that everybody only has one power, we do not have a canon source for her power name--merely for one aspect of it. Here's another example: we have a canon source name for D.L.'s power, "phasing". If we learned he was also able to make himself super-dense, "phasing" would no longer be a canon source name for his ability as a whole, merely for one aspect of it. If Elle was able to generate light like a light bulb without any electrical arcs, "lightning" would no longer describe her whole power.--Hardvice (talk) 12:56, 15 April 2008 (EDT)
        • Multiple articles might make sense, if it weren't for the guiding principle given by Mr. Bennet (Fallout) that each evolved human has only one power. We used to list Hiro as having three separate, but related, powers. The Haitian had two: memory erasing and power blocking (or names similar to those). But when we found out each evolved human only has one natural power, we combined the aspects into one umbrella power. Hiro's worked out nicely because we were given a very good description (Genesis) to explain everything he did. The Haitian not so much. No where in any canon source does it say that the Haitian manipulates minds or anything of the sort; instead we're left to describe the power, despite having been given usable canon descriptions for aspects of his power (The Fix and others).

          In Donna's case (and thank goodness we're going to learn more in the coming weeks!), she has clearly described multiple aspects to the same power, and "telescopic vision" does not cover all those aspects. There is obviously an aspect to what she can do that allows her to see in the dark, and it's not telecopic vision. Ultimately, a name needs to be derived that does not exclude parts of what she can do. I'm putting "enhanced vision" out there as the best suggestion I've heard so far (somebody else suggested it), but I'm sure there are other good ones. However, the point of this post is that "telescopic vision", regardless of being a name given in a near canon source, does not accurately describe everything Donna can do. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 13:12, 15 April 2008 (EDT)

          • Totally agree. She has enhanced vision, which includes both telescopic vision and night vision (and possibly others--microscopic vision, for one) as aspects. A canon/near-canon name which is incomplete and which can easily be read in context to apply to only a portion of the power should not be taken as the name of the whole power when there is evidence that other aspects of the power exist which the name does not cover. It has nothing to do with liking or not liking the name given, and more to do with whether the name given can be conceivably read as naming the entire power. In this case, I don't believe it can be read that way.--Hardvice (talk) 13:24, 15 April 2008 (EDT)
            • Right. I actually "like" the name telescopic vision just for the coolness factor, but it doesn't sit well with me to describe everything she can do that way. I'm not tied to "enhanced vision" (and I think it's kind of a boring name), but it's a better description for what she's able to do. I can ask Chuck Kim about it, of course, but that would still only be a secondary source. However, I think Hardvice brings up a good point that when the canon description is not complete, we need to look elsewhere. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 13:29, 15 April 2008 (EDT)
              • That's what we've been doing all along when it's come up, which is only infrequently (I can't think of anybody but Hiro and the Haitian, except maybe Peter). We should probably make it explicit in the naming convention somehow, though. Somewhere in the original discussions that led to the naming conventions we talked about this; with descriptive names, the name needs to be neither overbroad nor underbroad--that is, it can't exclude things we know they can do, or include things we don't know they can do. Now, with canon/near canon/secondary names, it seems OK to me for the name to be overbroad (ex: telepathy, before Matt started projecting thoughts), but not underbroad. Why? Because an overbroad name doesn't contradict the information we have, but an underbroad name does. Before Matt broadcast thoughts, we didn't know whether he could or not, so the overbroad canon name "telepathy" was acceptable--they gave it to us, and it described everything we'd seen. That it implied more was not enough to override the fact that the name was given. In this case, however, "telescopic vision" does not include everything she's described, so when we say it's not a complete name for her power, we're not ignoring or overriding the canon/near-canon/secondary source at all--we're merely noting that the name given is the name of part, but not all, of her power. Since she has only one power (like Hiro or the Haitian), we need a complete name. Telescopic vision, while from a near-canon source, is not complete.--Hardvice (talk) 13:48, 15 April 2008 (EDT)
              • Just to add one final consideration: "Mediumship" is a great current example of a near-canon/secondary name which is overbroad based both on what we've seen and what the writers have said (since "medium" is defined as "A person thought to have the power to communicate with the spirits of the dead or with agents of another world or dimension", and no communication seems to be taking place). But what we've seen doesn't contradict the name, so it's acceptable and the best source for a name. In this case "telescopic vision" does contradict what we've seen because it's underbroad. "Telescopic" means "capable of discerning distant objects" and in no way explains night vision.--Hardvice (talk) 14:35, 15 April 2008 (EDT)
  • I would go with enhanced vision. Donna can also see in the dark, so "telescopic vision" only refers to one aspect of her power. Watchmaker 14:51, 15 April 2008 (EDT)
    • I would go with enhanced vision too. My second choice would be "telescopic-night vision" as we have previously agreed to "space-time manipulation" for abilities that cover more than one aspect. If she can see microscopic as well as telescopic then enhanced vision is the better name. I guess we could find out more in a subsequent part.--MiamiVolts (talk) 15:06, 15 April 2008 (EDT)
      • "Space-time" is nowhere near the same as "telescopic-night". Not only does "space-time" come from Hiro's own quote, but it's based on the "space-time continuum". See here. Space and time are related; telescopic and night are not. More to the point from a naming convention standpoint, Hiro's ability is not called "space-time manipulation" because he manipulates space and manipulates time, but because he manipulates space-time (which itself encompasses both space and time). It's not an endorsement to string a bunch of different aspects of a power together with hyphens. Plus, it appears she does have microscopic vision as well, based on her mention of the ability to see every detail of a snowflake. Telescopic vision wouldn't do that; microscopic vision would.--Hardvice (talk) 16:04, 15 April 2008 (EDT)
        • Just to get my thought out there, people who said it should be enhanced vision are correct, the "just an aspect" thing is correct. On a side note, I really posted because I got another power right (the fact that is is distance as well as lighting). =] From my userpage: Oscar Schenck-Dresden, Germany-Enhanced Vision-He can see farther and closer than most humans, as well as in the dark or extreme brightness.--Riddler 22:18, 15 April 2008 (EDT)
          • As I mentioned before, if she can see microscopicly, then enhanced vision is the only way to go. Hardvice just confirmed for me the microscopic aspect so I'm fully behind the new name. However, I'd like to point out that even though we don't know for sure how her ability works, that my opinion is that the telescopic and night aspects of her ability are related. Donna may well have an enhanced visual cortex (the part of the brain that processes nerve data from the eye)--that seems much more likely to me instead of having both enhanced rods in her eyes for night vision and an enhanced lens in her eyes for both telescopic and microscopic vision.--MiamiVolts (talk) 15:19, 16 April 2008 (EDT)
            • My point was not that the aspects of her power are not related, but that the words "telescopic" and "night" are not related in the way that "space" and "time" are related. Space and time describe three and one dimension respectively of a four-dimensional coordinate system, and that's why "space-time manipulation" is appropriate. I just wanted to be clear that it's not a precedent to just string disparate powers together with hyphens in case the situation arises again. Hiro manipulates space-time; Donna does not see telescopic-night. If we were stringing powers together, we could call the Haitian's ability "memory-power nullification", but we're not: "space-time" is a single specific thing, understandable as a whole yet divisible into two parts, but "memory-power" and "telescopic-night" aren't.--Hardvice (talk) 11:27, 17 April 2008 (EDT)

Image

We need another image of this power - the one we have up currently is actually of Blake/Thompson looking at Donna through his night vision binoculars. --Ciwey 07:00, 15 April 2008 (EDT)

  • Passive powers are quite hard to get an image of; Her eyes are glowing in this one, which is probably as close to her "using" her power as you are going to get. --  Seclusion  talk / contribs 07:21, 15 April 2008 (EDT)
    • What about the image further down the page, of her pointing the gun directly at Blake from a block away? --BardinessBoy 13:08, 15 April 2008 (EDT)
    • We could use the one of her looking at the plane passenger from the ground. That's the most telescopic. --Elemental Manipulator [ U | T | C ] - When in doubt, ask BTE 09:52, 14 April 2009 (EDT)

Limits

Well, her ability allows her to see at least with in 245m. Chrisyudbsname.JPGChrisyudbstalk.JPG 08:24, 15 April 2008 (EDT)

  • She can even bend the ray as she sees the teachers solutions sheet! --Juba 09:36, 15 April 2008 (EDT)

245 meters

Where did this number come from? Is it in the GN? Did I miss it? --Looky 18:34, 15 April 2008 (EDT)

  • I think it was a stat on Blake's binoculars. --NellaBishop 18:48, 15 April 2008 (EDT)
    • Oh, right. Thanks. --Looky 19:19, 15 April 2008 (EDT)
      • Which is, well, crazy. First, it doesn't fit with "half a city block". If you use a Manhattan block (big compared to other cities), that's 900 x 264 feet. 450 feet, half of the long side, is only 137m. 245m works out to a city block 1640 ft wide. It's also well out of the effective range of most pistols (a .45 ACP round only has an effective range of about 50m). And effective range is usually determined with the gun clamped in a vice. It doesn't matter how good your eyesight is, the gun and the round aren't accurate enough to hit at that range. She even describes it as a "hand cannon", and generally, the bigger and slower the gun, the worse the effective range. She could see well enough to count the pores on his face and it'd still be a one-in-a-million shot.--Hardvice (talk) 21:15, 15 April 2008 (EDT)
        • ...which is why I stopped caring about the GN's. As for the pistol, since it was the first gun she used, her description of it being a hand cannon could easily be a misnomer. You'd be surprised how many women react to firing smaller caliber weapons and thinking they're a larger caliber. As for range, effective range is the maximum range that most shooters will be able to accurately hit a target. So technically, the range can be expanded, but only by a few meters. So I'd agree that 245m is well out of the range of any handgun munition. Again, the last four or five GN's have turned me off, and I'm not really paying much mind to them anymore, just reading through them for edits here.--Bob (talk) 12:09, 17 April 2008 (EDT)
          • TBH, this is the first one I've read carefully since The Ten Brides of TK, but that's mostly just because real life is being time-demanding right now.--Hardvice (talk) 12:31, 17 April 2008 (EDT)

"The Ten Brides of Telekinesis?" :D--ERROR 22:03, 17 June 2009 (EDT)

Coincidence ?

You can delete this if people mind other people to tell expiriences..

This is soo freaky, view weeks ago I thought of an ability to like Light up while laying in the sun and the power of Luminescence or something like that was introduced in a comic. View weeks later while I was watching The Ghost Whisperer and I thought of a ability on heroes to actually make somebody see ghosts > Mediumship. And this week I was sorta looking for my contacts and prentending to have eagle vision (while I was totally blindsided, anyways) and look what popped up this week in a new Comic Enhanced vision. Freaky or what..

Has anybody else had this. Wandering about what new abilities Heroes would bring and then the effect you came up with actually appears on the show or in a grafic novel ?DarthYotho 17:53, 16 April 2008 (EDT)

  • A long time ago, I wondered when they'd do a flexibility type ability (not quite Mr. Fantastic where you can stretch, but at least where you're flexible), and they finally did in Different and the Same.--Bob (talk) 12:25, 22 April 2008 (EDT)

Name +2

Yeah, Despite her gift of Perception. --  Seclusion  talk / contribs 04:53, 22 April 2008 (EDT)

  • Yup. Not a particularly good name (perception entails more than vision, and describes an ability most people possess, not a superpower), but a name they've given us which covers everything we've seen. Like it or not, we're stuck with it.--Hardvice (talk) 13:04, 22 April 2008 (EDT)
    • Didn't we conclude a long time ago that the intro to the GN's weren't canon? --Hero!(talk)(contribs) 13:46, 22 April 2008 (EDT)
      • I think the conclusion was that the novels themselves trumped the intros. We've never said the intros aren't a source, though. Lots of information we've used comes from the intros.--Hardvice (talk) 13:53, 22 April 2008 (EDT)
        • Right. The intros are not canon, but the graphic novels aren't either. The GNs are "near-canon". The intros to the the novels come from NBC, so they unofficially fall somewhere between secondary sources and near-canon sources. Something inside the GN would trump the intro (see "replication" vs. "duplication", or the spelling of Hana Gitelman's name), yet the intros should not be discounted. The info from an GN intro (in this case "perception") would definitely "win" in a battle with a fan-created description (in this case "enhanced vision"). -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 13:56, 22 April 2008 (EDT)
          • Good catch on the intro. saying "perception". I really have much disdain for the name "perception", but using it does make sense.--MiamiVolts (talk) 15:40, 22 April 2008 (EDT)
          • If perception qualifies as name, then technicaly telescopic vision does too. And since it's from inside the novel instead of the intro, it has a better "chance". I'm seeing the intro as a description/reference to her ability, not necessarily the name of it. --Piemanmoo 01:45, 23 April 2008 (EDT)
            • The problem with "telescopic vision" is that it only describes one aspect, one use, of the ability, which also encompasses night vision and microscopic vision. What we need is the (near)canon name that encompasses the entirety of the ability. Despite the atrociously simplistic, entirely unscientific, and underwhelming name "perception," that canon name describes the entirety of the ability and covers all its uses, not just a part of the whole, as the equally canon name "telescopic vision" does.--SacValleyDweller (talk) 02:28, 23 April 2008 (EDT)
              • Well said, Sac. Another way to think of it is if Donna had said something like, "I have night vision". Great. But that doesn't describe being able to see test answers on a teacher's desk or to see the details of a snowflake. I'm not a fan of "perception", but it at least covers everything Donna can do, which is really paramount. The ultimate question we should be asking is "Is this a good name for the ability?" -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 07:33, 23 April 2008 (EDT)
                • To me, calling Donna's power perception is like calling Nikki's power strength.--Piemanmoo 16:16, 23 April 2008 (EDT)
                  • I agree. It's not a great name. "Strength" is a great analogy: it's very overbroad, and possessed to some degree by all humans. However, it's the only name that we've been given which covers everything. Hopefully, we'll get another source (if the password on the image of Thompson Jr. follows the same pattern as the rest, it's probably for Donna's dossier, since her initials are "DD").--Hardvice (talk) 18:09, 23 April 2008 (EDT)
                    • I don't see why we would call her power just perception because the intro is very limited in detail that (in my opinion) could be considered for people even if they aren't evolved humans. Such as Detectives, they have the power of perception possibly even more so than normal people. The name is just bleh, it would be much better if it was "Enhanced Perception" because than that would actually imply that the ability comes from an evolved human. Right now it's on par to someone who isn't an evolved human but has the strength of hand to hand combat (just for an example) --Dman dustin 04:35, 24 April 2008 (EDT)

Name +3

The assignment tracker just cracked for Donna calls her ability "telescopic vision". That sounds rather concrete to me. Or shall we change it back to "enhanced vision" cause telescopic is too narrow?--MiamiVolts (talk) 17:14, 25 April 2008 (EDT)

  • It's been called telescopic vision twice now. I say go with that. --NellaBishop 19:40, 25 April 2008 (EDT)
    • Agreed. It's been used twice, describes her power accurately enough (barring some minor issues), and is clearly what people are going to be expecting it to be called considering the sources in which it's been used. (Admin 19:46, 25 April 2008 (EDT))
      • I reluctantly agree. I think I'll send an email to Chuck Kim to get his take on it. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 19:48, 25 April 2008 (EDT)
        • Well, we can't really get more official than that. --Piemanmoo 20:48, 25 April 2008 (EDT)
  • I don't support Telescopic Vision because it doesn't incorporate the fact she also has night vision as well. It's to narrow. --Snow Leapord 13:59, 27 April 2008 (EDT)
    • I agree it's a lousy name, but based on the Heroes Evolutions dossier, I think it's now clear that it's intended to be the name of the power ... even though it doesn't cover everything very well at all. Barring another name in the episode or graphic novel, we're (sadly) stuck with it.--Hardvice (talk) 02:42, 28 April 2008 (EDT)
  • Well on the Diagram it says Enhanced Visual Cortex, and it also says "Nocturnal Vision" and "Telescopic Vision" so I'm not sure --Dman dustin 03:59, 28 April 2008 (EDT)
    • True. But the only thing it says in gigantic letters under the heading "Unique ability" is "telescopic vision". The rest is a description. Much as we may dislike the name (and I don't see anybody doing cartwheels over it), that's what they're calling it, so that's what we're calling it.--Hardvice (talk) 10:43, 29 April 2008 (EDT)
  • So we are supposed to believe the name Telescopic Vision is applicable and covers Telesclopic, Nocturnal, and X-Ray Vision? The dossier is wrong, rigid adherence to stated "facts" when it flies in the face of spoken and visual evidence is irrational. --Snow Leapord 07:47, 29 April 2008 (EDT)
    • They could call it "Magical faerie optics" if they wanted. If they did so in the novels, we'd be stuck with that. Our job is to document, not to create. It's been directly referred to as "telescopic vision" five times now.--Hardvice (talk) 10:40, 29 April 2008 (EDT)
  • What is the problem with calling this power Enhanced vision it covers all the bases. Telescopic vision doesn't cover the other aspects of the power.--Iceman 10:07, 29 April 2008 (EDT)
    • It's been called "Telescopic vision" at least five times now: three in the novels, once in the dossier, and once in the intro to the novels. Like it or not, it's the name given in near-canon sources, and the name people are most likely to search for. We're stuck with it.--Hardvice (talk) 10:40, 29 April 2008 (EDT)
      • If it helps, I think of Donna's vision being like a really special telescope--one that can see in the dark and one that can see the details of a snowflake. That's the only way I can justify "telescopic vision" in my mind. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 19:47, 29 April 2008 (EDT)
        • How do you justify the X-Ray vision part of her ability? Cause as evidenced by Career Choices' dialogue that is also a part of her ability. --Snow Leapord 11:02, 30 April 2008 (EDT)
        • The x-ray part of Donna's ability hasn't been demonstrated, but irl there is the Chandra X-Ray Telescope that can view X-Rays.--MiamiVolts (talk) 11:13, 30 April 2008 (EDT)
          • The mere fact it has been stated in relation to her is proof enough that she has it. As for that telescope it further proves that the article's name is to narrow, it is called Chandra X-Ray Telescope which specifically tells it can do x-rays and is not just another ordinary telescope. --Snow Leapord 21:01, 5 May 2008 (EDT)

An Chandra X-ray can look at people bones?--User:50000JH/signature