Talk:Persuasion

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Ability Naming Conventions
The following sources are used for determining evolved human ability names, in order:
Episodes
2. Near-canon Sources Webisodes,
Graphic Novels,
iStories,
Heroes Evolutions
3. Secondary Sources Episode commentary,
Interviews,
Heroes: Survival
4. Common names for abilities Names from other works
5. Descriptions of abilities Descriptions
6. Possessor's name If no non-speculative
description is possible

Note: The highlighted row represents the level of the source used to determine persuasion's name.
Source/Explanation
Sylar refers to Eden's ability as "the power of persuasion" in Fallout; the power is also explicitly named in From the Files of Primatech, Part 1.

Effectiveness

I suspect Eden's power is more effective when she has already established good relations with the target; she has more difficulty compelling someone to act when she has to overcome a hostile attitude. This would explain her failure with Sylar and the need to repeat her instruction to Matt Parkman. Her power probably works best when she is simply coaxing someone past a little bit of reluctance instead of over direct opposition. --Ted C 12:16, 12 December 2006 (EST)

Name

Is there some reason we changed this from "Suggestion", since that's the only term for her power I recall actually being used in the show? --Ted C 10:10, 28 December 2006 (EST)

I just checked and near the end of Fallout when Eden visited Sylar he did call it "the power of persuasion." Do you recall when they referred to it as "suggestion" in the show? In the end it may not be that important... a rose by any other name... :) (Admin 10:24, 28 December 2006 (EST))
Sylar definitely calls it persuasion. I think that's a good name, too. Eden persuades (um, persuaded), which has a stronger connotation of control, rather than simply making a "suggestion". - RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 11:11, 28 December 2006 (EST)
Hmmm... I thought Sylar called it the "power of suggestion" when he attacked Eden in "Fallout". --Ted C 15:15, 28 December 2006 (EST)
As soon as I saw your original comment that's the exact scene I went and checked out. :) He does say "persuasion" there. (Admin 15:19, 28 December 2006 (EST))
Settles that, then. --Ted C 15:24, 28 December 2006 (EST)
Tacto-hypnosis. That's what they call it in X-Men Origins: Wolverine. --Boycool Two little mice fell in a bucket of cream. The first mouse quickly gave up and drowned. The second mouse wouldn't quit. He struggled so hard that eventually he churned that cream into butter and crawled out. Amen. 09:36, 26 June 2010 (EDT)
Thank goodness it's Heroes and not X-Men. Green.gif AltesUTC CH 13:10, 26 June 2010 (EDT)
Funny. --Boycool Two little mice fell in a bucket of cream. The first mouse quickly gave up and drowned. The second mouse wouldn't quit. He struggled so hard that eventually he churned that cream into butter and crawled out. Amen. 13:53, 26 June 2010 (EDT)
Heroes is just the plot of X-Men stretched out over 56 hours. --Boycool Two little mice fell in a bucket of cream. The first mouse quickly gave up and drowned. The second mouse wouldn't quit. He struggled so hard that eventually he churned that cream into butter and crawled out. Amen. 14:41, 26 June 2010 (EDT)

Canon naming

I've seen the discussion above, and although Sylar says "the power of persuasion", is this an explicit naming of the ability. For example if he said the power of reading minds, that wouldn't be an explicit name would it. But the main reason I've brought this up is that in Graphic Novel:From the Files of Primatech, Part 1 the ability was explicitly by the company. Would this not be more appropriate than Sylar's comment for the naming conventions? --mc_hammark 18:49, 19 February 2010 (EST)

  • Right. I think it's an excellent name, but not as explicit as something like an Assignment Tracker or one of Nathan's files... or one of Primatech's files. Thank goodness the Primatech file gave it an explicit name. I updated the power names box. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 22:41, 19 February 2010 (EST)

Damen Peak

Based on the intro, I don't think Damen Peak has persuasion as it is currently defined... I think they were specific in calling him a hypnotizer, such that the ability requires eye contact to work, and such that he can provide commands with non-verbal cues.--MiamiVolts (talk) 16:53, 24 November 2015 (EST)

  • Just rewatched it and Joanne specifically says that he is an evo "gifted with the power of persuasion". Hypnosis isn't mentioned at all. We don't know that it requires eye contact to work, the change in eye color may just be a side effect of his ability. Based on these points, persuasion is a less speculative name than "hypnosis". -Kon (talk) 17:19, 24 November 2015 (EST)
    • I agree with Kon. We use what we know, and we know that Joanne calls it Persuasion. It has a different visual effect than Eden's power (boy, that was so long ago!), but it still has the same outcome: he persuades people to do what he wants. Hypnosis isn't mentioned at all, and it doesn't even seem like Jim or Lilly are hypnotized, other than that they're doing what Damen wants. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 18:09, 24 November 2015 (EST)
    • Ah, I just found this clip of the intro online and in it, I don't hear "hypnotizer" in Joanne's comments about Damon Peak, though I remember it from the aired commercial, which I recall showed Damen Peak entering his car (the online intro currently cuts Damen's scene at the board room). In the board room scene from this intro, Damen says "has truly been an honor" when his eyes and one of the men at the table's eyes glow and then they shake hands without any other verbal cue to do so--that's borderline persuasion, I guess, but it's persuasion to cause a belief, I think, and not a physical action, which is how persuasion is currently defined here. I think the description of persuasion should be reworded, if the wiki is going to keep this as persuasion.--MiamiVolts (talk) 18:29, 24 November 2015 (EST)
    • I think there was also cell phone usage in the board room that appeared in aired commercial--that might help someone who is searching for a different clip online that occurs time-wise prior to the Damen Peak webisode, but I don't recall any extra ability usage. Also, I think that the "power of persuasion" comment Kon quoted above was also in the aired commercial. As far as Jim and Lilly not appearing hypnotized, I think they do appear hypnotized during the ability usage itself (when the eyes are glowing): Jim appears to be frozen with his mouth partially open while his eyes are glowing (during the trance). Lilly stays in the same place, looking like she is trying to put on an earring until Damen says to stop what she is doing and then she drops her hands to her side and goes with him outside like he asks.--MiamiVolts (talk) 21:31, 24 November 2015 (EST)
      • I think the way they act when they are being persuaded is very similar to the way Parkman and others acted when Eden persuaded them. I don't see it as a different ability or hypnosis. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 22:52, 24 November 2015 (EST)
      • Based on what Joanne does at the ending of the "Damon Peak" webisode video, I think we may be finding more about Damen's ability soon. I feel I should also note that Lilly questions whether Damen is joking when he first asks her to stop and leave with him--I think this could be noted as possible pre-programming on Damen's part... maybe he told Lilly or someone else to do something by mistake before and now he has Lilly programmed to confirm what he wants as a precaution. For what it's worth, the blurb on the "Damen Peak" video currently calls Damen a "mental manipulator" so I think a "see also" link from mental manipulation to persuasion would be appropriate for now.--MiamiVolts (talk) 04:09, 25 November 2015 (EST)
        • In Making of the Damen Peak Video, the actor who plays Damen (Ian Duncan) comments regarding Damen Peak--"he has this power to persuade people without it being too obvious, you know--it's all in the eyes, and he is able to be confident and persuasive with whatever he does." So this is another cite for persuasion and one noting Damen's ability relates to the eyes. At the end of this behind-the-scenes video, Ian expresses his desire for a Cadillac CTS in a way (with a smirk on one side of his face while staring at the camera) that makes me suspect he was acting out Damen's ability--so I'm thinking this suggests but not confirms that the ability could also be used by Damen to tell someone what he wants and they would just do it without Damen even having to ask for it to be done. For the man who shakes Damen's hands (Jim), it appears confirmed to me that Damen was using flattery with his ability to achieve a better perception of himself than may be justified in Jim's eyes (pun intentional). Also, I have not noticed any examples confirming it yet, but I think Damen could probably also supply an argument and use his ability to make someone buy into it regardless of what they thought of its veracity. And if it is literally "all in the eyes", then Damen could probably give imperatives via a written note as long as the person the ability is used on made eye contact with him at the same time as the note.--MiamiVolts (talk) 02:13, 28 November 2015 (EST)