Talk:Possession

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Ability Naming Conventions
The following sources are used for determining evolved human ability names, in order:
1. Canon Sources Episodes
Webisodes,
Graphic Novels,
iStories,
Heroes Evolutions
3. Secondary Sources Episode commentary,
Interviews,
Heroes: Survival
4. Common names for abilities Names from other works
5. Descriptions of abilities Descriptions
6. Possessor's name If no non-speculative
description is possible

Note: The highlighted row represents the level of the source used to determine possession's name.
Source/Explanation
Claire says to Harold Esposito, "You can possess people." (Chapter 15 of Save the Cheerleader, Destroy the World).


um...

User:Shadowulf1 10:08, 24 September 2008 (EDT) this seems to be a feat under the umbrella "intangibility" (phasing), but the molecules of Jesse and Peter don't occupy the same space, and so they can coexist.

  • Phasing allows you to exist inside someone else as long as you don't attempt to move, but it doesn't allow you to unknowingly control someone else's body.--MiamiVolts (talk) 10:24, 24 September 2008 (EDT)
  • User:Shadowulf1 18:10, 8 October 2008 (EDT) whatev. Not body insertion. Phasing. That's what I think. And you don't know the entire mechanics, and so you don't know what the Heroes people say is possible for a phaser.

I hate to be this guy

but do we really know that this is a seperate power and not just something else like a mish-mash of illusion and telepathy? Maybe until we know that it's a seperate ability we should move the page to something like we did for Brain Removal, where it considered like an action sort of thing but not neccessarily a whole new power. --Piemanmoo 03:07, 24 September 2008 (EDT)

  • Yes that is true, how do we not know he just telaported peter into the cell and made him look like Jess with Illusion? --Skywalkerrbf 03:10, 24 September 2008 (EDT)
    • Illusion is a localized ability (its effects have never existed outside the caster's presence) and Future Peter left his present day self in Level 5 alone in Jesse's body. Future Peter specifically says he put his present day self in Jesse's body and that's what it looks like. Absent any evidence to the contrary, that's what we have to go by.--MiamiVolts (talk) 03:16, 24 September 2008 (EDT)
      • Sylar was able to fool the enitre world into beliving he was Nathan using illusion, it effected TV cameras and presumably photos. D Toccs 08:05, 23 December 2008 (EST)
        • As I mentioned elsewhere, as President of the U.S.A., Sylar could have ordered the press to use special image-enhancing software and/or he could have some other means to alter what the cameras record.--MiamiVolts (talk) 16:16, 27 December 2008 (EST)
          • We know he had illusion and was using it to impersonate Nathan, to go saying he must of used some "image enhacing software" or "new unknown power" is needless speculation. D Toccs 22:39, 27 December 2008 (EST)
            • The one thing that doesn't suggests this is Micah's speculation that illusion works by bending the light around the individual, but that seems to fail when interviews said the ability is mental. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 09:17, 28 December 2008 (EST)
              • That could still be mental control, just controlling the light (or bending the light around them). --Ricard Desi (t,c) 10:48, 28 December 2008 (EST)
                • well the writers are clearly wrong about how their own ability works. They must bend light. -- Gamerelite1 14:22, 10 May 2009

AFD

  • I'm not convinced this is a separate power--I think it's very probable this is an effect of another power. I think the existence of the article itself is speculative and I would delete it until we find out more information about the nature of Peter's imprisonment in Jesse's body and how that feat was accomplished. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 07:42, 24 September 2008 (EDT)
    • Future Peter said he did it, we have evidence it was done and it does not appear to be an aspect of any known ability. I think it is fine to document this as feat as a new ability as it has been presented to us thus far.--MiamiVolts (talk) 10:21, 24 September 2008 (EDT)
      • It's also fine to nominate it for deletion. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 11:07, 24 September 2008 (EDT)
      • I think it's way too speculative and too soon for this. I'm in strong favor of deletion. (Admin 11:12, 24 September 2008 (EDT))
  • I assumed it was illusion or telepathy. --Hero!(talk)(contribs) 11:52, 24 September 2008 (EDT)
    • The first thing I thought of was Revenge of the Body Snatchers, LOL... Anyways, since no one appears to agree with me please move this to my userspace and delete this redirect. I'll try and get this answered by CBR. Thanks.--MiamiVolts (talk) 12:31, 24 September 2008 (EDT)
      • I think the nature of Present Peter's imprisonment will be answered very soon in an upcoming episode... -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 12:48, 24 September 2008 (EDT)

CBR questions

I sent a few CBR questions in anyways. Specifically, my e-mail asked:

What exactly did Future Peter do to his present-day self? Is this some new ability Future Peter obtained, or is it one or more old ones being used in a new way?

And if it is a new ability, am I right to be thinking Invasion of the Body Snatchers is upon us? Was a copy of Mr. Linderman's personality placed into Nathan with this ability? Was Jessica placed into Niki's body using this ability to protect Niki? Did the Company extract Jessica from Niki's body using this ability? And is a clone of Niki with Jessica's mind now going around thinking she is this Tracy Strauss?

When Hiro traveled to the future, did he learn to what time/date he traveled to? Does Hiro know how long he has to avoid the impending doom? Can you enlighten us on when exactly that was? Is present day in the Heroes storyline still March 21, 2007 (the day after Nathan was shot) or has more time past? Is the lack of fixed dates in the first two episodes, the Going Postal webisodes, and the most recent arc of graphic novels intentional? Will we be seeing any more fixed dates anytime soon? --MiamiVolts (talk) 15:46, 24 September 2008 (EDT)

  • How are comic book resoruses going to know?--Skywalkerrbf 15:55, 24 September 2008 (EDT)
    • CBR has a weekly series called Behind the Eclipse where a couple of the writers/producers (Joe Pokaski and Aron Coliete) answer our questions in a sometimes cryptic, sometimes straightforward manner. :) Read more on sending your question in here.--MiamiVolts (talk) 16:00, 24 September 2008 (EDT)
    • Did anyone locate this week's CBR Behind the Eclipse? I can't seem to find it...--MiamiVolts (talk) 01:13, 30 September 2008 (EDT)

Canonicity of name

I think this is a canon name for this ability because Future Peter said he placed his present-day self inside Jesse's body. The words body and inside are where the name comes from. Body is explicit and insertion comes from inside, just as constriction comes from Constrictor. Not that this matters much unless someone wants to rename the ability, but those are my thoughts.--MiamiVolts (talk) 01:19, 30 September 2008 (EDT)

  • I doubt anyone has a better name.--Piemanmoo 01:23, 30 September 2008 (EDT)
    • The name is fine, but it's not a canon name. It's a level 5 (Ha! Level 5) name--a description of the abilities. Insertion is a derivative of the word insert, not inside. Even still, the term was never used on the show, so it's not a canon name. But I don't think there is any problem with the name, I just want to make sure that we're all aware that if a different name is used, say, in a graphic novel, it would take precedence over "body insertion". -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 01:31, 30 September 2008 (EDT)
  • With FPeter being able to remove Peter from the body, does this name accurately describe the ability? I think maybe "Body placement" might be an acceptable name for the time being.--Bob (talk) 05:17, 30 September 2008 (EDT)
    • That sounds fine to me, too. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 06:59, 30 September 2008 (EDT)
      • I really think its fine too, i think we should wait to see if we have more of this ability before we start renaming it, then we can take a vote.--Pbmarcano 20:30, 1 October 2008 (EDT)

Limits change

In the Limits section, I think we can change:

"Peter did not appear capable of using his own abilities, but was able to use those of the body he was inhabiting."

to be more definitive that he couldn't use his power. I base this on him being frozen in time when Future Peter arrives, and not being unfrozen until he's pushed out of Jesse's body. I suppose it's possible that he wasn't frozen, but Jesse's body was, but from the fact that we actually see the Peter perspective frozen first, I think it's a good enough bet that he was powerless (save sound manipulation) while stuck in Jesse's body.


Any thoughts or objections to the change (or do you want to wait until we actually discover what the power is)?


Stevehim 07:50, 1 October 2008 (EDT)

they both say the same thing, and the top one i only needed to read once to understand. --UrNoob 20:03, 7 December 2008 (EST)

Just a thought

I think this is very unlikely (especially because they'd have to explain why he was in control), but I wonder if it's possible that the 'body-switching' power is a function and/or evolution of DL's ability. What would happen if you phased someone into another person? Would they just go splat? We see DL do this to Linderman's head, but maybe the power has grown, or there's some combination of the time control/phasing that took place to not-solidify Peter inside Jesse.

Like I said, I don't think this is the case at all (and it is a new power by Future Pete), but it was something that occurred to me on the rewatch (mostly because Future Peter's hand goes through Jesse's body and doesn't leave a wound).


Possible?

Stevehim 09:51, 30 September 2008 (EDT)

User:Shadowulf1 22:24, 10 October 2008 (EDT) He COULD Use his powers, he mimicked Jesse's sonic scream, he just couldn't manifest it until he was out of Jesse's body.

  • Peter used Jesse's sonic scream whilst inside Jesse's body. But his empathic mimicry wouldn't kick in until he was removed. --Matchu 22:26, 10 October 2008 (EDT)

Phasing?

Hi, just noticed in One of Us, One of Them that Future Peter (Exposed Future) is using a phase technique to get Peter out of Jesse's body. Maybe i got it wrong but that would mean that's it's not body insertion but just phasing.

  • I doubt it. When D.L. phased his hand through Jessica's chest (Better Halves), she was very hurt. When he put his hand through Linderman's head (Landslide), it killed him. I don't think it's possible to put a person's entire body into another person's body with phasing--from what we've seen, that would kill one or both of them. I think it must be a new power, eh? -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 08:03, 30 September 2008 (EDT)
    • It might be possible if he controlled it with his time manipulation ability (if he has sufficient control over it...ie - ability to freeze some objects and not others). Maybe he was able to somehow freeze Jesse in time, but not Peter, and phase Peter into Jesse's body. As I stated above, I doubt that's the case, and I think this is a new power, but it's food for thought.Stevehim 09:52, 30 September 2008 (EDT)
  • I actually had the same thought when I saw Peter removed from Jesse. I'm wondering if this isn't a distinct ability but rather Future Peter using two or more of his other abilities in conjunction to achieve the effect. --Ted C 14:30, 30 September 2008 (EDT)
    • Ryan if you watch that scene closely between niki and DL, he went through her chest and came up putting his hand around her throat, he was choking her.... i think its just this body insertion ability, how else do you put someone in someone else's body if you cant push them THROUGH someone else? lol... either way i don't believe its a form of phasing.--Pbmarcano 20:36, 1 October 2008 (EDT)
      • You may be interested in my theory in how this might be accomplished. I call it atomic chimerism. It's totally speculation, but a valid theory nonetheless.--MiamiVolts (talk) 02:18, 2 October 2008 (EDT)

I seriously doubt that this power is a branch-off from phasing. First of all, if Future Peter "phased" Present Peter into Jesse, how could Present Peter control Jesse's limbs? If he were solidified, wouldn't Jesse explode or something? We've seen Present Peter use phasing before in Four Months Ago, so couldn't he have just phased back out? Obviously, this is a brand new power. And (this is my crazy Jessica theory--bare with me X]) I believe Jessica may have had this ability. Perhaps she sat inside Niki, and only came out when she saw fit... it's kinda a stretch, but hey, what isn't? XD --Mask-o 21:23, 3 October 2008 (EDT)

  • We're probably a couple of the few that still believe that something like that was possible... The writers have more or less said that Jessica was an alternate personality, but not confirmed that Jessica's personality was naturally occurring (I don't take Bob at his word). My personal theory, though, is that someone else had/has that power other than Jessica cause we haven't seen it used for self-insertion and cause I don't think Jessica would risk her sister's life doing all the things she did if she didn't have to.--MiamiVolts (talk) 22:50, 3 October 2008 (EDT)

User:Shadowulf1 I think somehow FPeter caused PPeter's body and consciousness to possess the body and consciousness of Jesse, thus causing Peter to possess Jesse. There is no name for it, but it shouldn't be body insertion.

    • Since there are now new examples for this ability (from Harold), I think the wiki might be able to change the article's name. I still think that this is accomplished in a manner other than phasing, as my above linked theory details, especially since Harold "possessed" someone of a different gender: Claire.--MiamiVolts (talk) 14:20, 5 December 2015 (EST)

Object Displacement

  • A canon power name that we don't know exactly what it does. Think of it like putting something in water it displaces the water. Now think of the water as opague so you can't see what is in the water but you know it is there. When Future Peter put Present Peter in Jesse it worked the same way Peter's body displaced Jesse's body but all you see is Jesse.--Iceman 08:37, 30 September 2008 (EDT)
    • I don't believe this is exactly object displacement, yet creative theory, this would theoretically make jessie explode if Peter placed Peter inside and make peter crawl outside his body... i do believe we have seen this ability though in the first episode. I believe FPeter either use space/time manipulation as an "ability extension" to teleport Matt to africa, or maybe he used Object Displacement!!! Displacing Matt to Africa--Pbmarcano 20:41, 1 October 2008 (EDT)
      • User:Shadowulf1 18:17, 8 October 2008 (EDT) I like where Iceman is going. It is possible that both Jesse and Peter could coexist, because Peter was inside of Jesse's body, but their molecules did not occupy the same space, so they could, by some supernatural or extraphysical rule still have coexisted; at least at the standpoint of a superhuman observer (think:stranger things have happened).

Power Combo?

I was just re-watching the episode and I thought, "hey, Peter and Sylar are the only ones that have more than one. What if they could create new psuedo-powers by using combinatons of powers." My point being that this might be Peter using Phasing and telepathy. He is from the future. He has probably gained tremendous control over his powers. He might be able to do what Maury is able to and mix that with phasing to get... Body insertion. Just a thought. Modestoddesy 21:31, 2 October 2008 (EDT)

  • Could be. I'm still not convinced it's a power unto itself. I think it's an aspect of another power, like phasing or teleportation--which is exactly what you just said. Oh well, whatever. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 22:12, 2 October 2008 (EDT)

Powers applied to others?

Okay, another theory about this power: its the power of possession, physically entering and taking control of someone else's body. In its original usage, the user is the one entering the person's body. However, Future Peter somehow learned how to apply it to someone else, much like phasing or invisibility can be extended to someone else. --Metaphysician 15:00, 8 October 2008 (EDT)

User:Shadowulf1 I agree...I think somehow FPeter caused PPeter's body and consciousness to possess the body and consciousness of Jesse, thus causing Peter to possess Jesse. There is no name for it, but it shouldn't be body insertion.

OK

now this, I can accept. Bodily possession, just induced by someone else, and lasts as long as he is in there. He seems not to be able to get out on his own though, so it may be Astral Trapping, or some other ability, but I believe we are at least on the right track, if not entirely right as to this theory (Phasing? ridiculous...)

Name Proposal: Complete Possession

Throwing this idea out there: Body/Soul Manipulation came to mind, but I don't think it's appropriate to assume he is working with a person's soul when changing who has conscious control over the host body. Doesn't explain the violation of the laws of space either. Body Insertion isn't bad, but doesn't address the change of conscious control of said body. Then I thought, what about Complete Possession ("complete" referring to the fact that the attached person's body, and not just their consciousness, is "possessing" the host). While a little less direct than Body Insertion, I think it encompasses the full ability more. Side note, I wonder if Future Peter can use this ability to control another person himself? GabrielPatrelli 15:45, 13 October 2008 (EDT)

  • I think 'Body possession' is also a good name, but we don't know anything about it. It looks to me like Future Peter has the ability to possess the bodies of others and has evolved it enough to be able to use it on people other than himself (ability extension). But this is speculation. -- FlamingTomDude 18:19, 16 November 2008 (EST)

body insertion maybe body possession , but w have to wait and see also putting some one into another body's is sort of possession--Zoga78 17:36, 6 March 2009 (EST)

Eric Doyle?

I personally think it could be an evolution of Eric Doyle's power, he can control peoples bodies so why not form the inside. We saw matts power expand to controlling anythign the mind can so why not others. --Drj 19:13, 29 March 2009

  • That's entirely possible, that it could be his ability SUPERCHARGED. Try adding that to the theories page! --Crazylicious 23:17, 29 March 2009 (EDT)
    • I don't see it happening. What I can see happening is Doyle's ability growing strong enough to the point he doesn't need to move to control others, controlling many more people at once, and being able to force their bodies beyond their limits, kinda like making someone bend their arm in a way so strongly that it breaks. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 15:30, 30 March 2009 (EDT)
      • *sigh* Why does everyone think if a random ability is supercharged, it may be used to perform some entirely different things? I'm starting to regret the writers created ability supercharging. Besides, body insertion isn't about controlling bodies. It's about fusing two objects together. As for me, this power is as weird as it's senseless - abilities are the gifts of evolution, which means it should be something useful. Why would you need to put a man into another man's body? Curse that Volume Three. -- Altes 08:47, 8 July 2009 (EDT)

Not all gifts can be useful, hence the expression, "life isn't fair". If all abilities wer useful, a lot of the evolved humans would be dangerous, or a pretty good hero. there is always the weakling in these kind of movies/shows.--Catalyst · Talk · HL 10:26, 8 July 2009 (EDT)

  • Well, maybe, Trevor's ability, for example, is totally dumb. However, there's still no connection between puppet master and body insertion. -- Altes 06:09, 9 July 2009 (EDT)

Possession

In Save the Cheerleader, Destroy the World, this ability is referred to several times as possession:

  • Claire says to Harold Esposito, "You can possess people." (Chapter 15)
  • Richard Schwenkman says, "If you try to escape again, Harold will possess you," and later, "[ Agent Arbucci ] is trying desperately to convince his superiors that he was possessed by an Evo." (Chapter 15)
  • Harold Esposito himself says, "I can just possess a random bank manager." (Chapter 15)
  • Harold (as Peter) says, "I should start possessing Evos more often." (Chapter 16)
  • The book says that Claire had given up the the approach of "getting shot, being possessed by Esposito, and marching herself back to her cell." (Chapter 17)

So we have several different characters who refer to it as possession, including Esposito, as well as the narrative of the book itself. The name "possession" has been suggested before. It's better than the descriptive name, and it's semi-canonical. I guess the only other question is "any opposed?" :) -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 16:45, 5 December 2015 (EST)

  • Agreed on the rename in accordance with the convention. (Admin (talk) 17:36, 5 December 2015 (EST))
    • Sounds good to me. "Body insertion" always struck me as a little weird anyway. --Radicell (talk) 18:21, 5 December 2015 (EST)
  • Can we clarify this to "chimeric possession" to differentiate it from "spiritual possession" and "demonic possession"?--MiamiVolts (talk) 14:13, 6 December 2015 (EST)
  • I'm not opposed to just calling it "possession". It's just that "possession" by itself isn't my preference for the ability name (in 2008, I theorized that it was atomic chimerism--combining two people atomically instead of genetically). At least there wasn't confirmation that it's phasing... "Chimeric possession" has been proposed for use on the forum of the free/open-source RPG (Tales of Maj’Eyal) to mean possessing up to two creatures at once. I haven't been using that forum or RPG, but the term turned up there when I was searching for online uses of it. Harold's ability works on people--we don't know if it could work on one or more creatures simultaneously as the forum thread was discussing, or even more than one person simultaneously.--MiamiVolts (talk) 17:51, 6 December 2015 (EST)
    • No source uses the word "chimeric" or any form of that word, as far as I can find. Let's call it "possession" and then specify its meaning in the page's content and all the "ability to" sections, rather than trying to distinguish it from something that doesn't exist in Heroes by giving it a distinguishing name. I think just "possession" is fine. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 23:25, 6 December 2015 (EST)