Talk:Saving Charlie

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You might want to throw an External Links section on this page to back up the plot section, and I'd say it's about ready to go into the main pages. Looks very nice. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 21:39, 30 August 2007 (EDT)

  • I've been wanting this page for so long! :) Thank you, DocM! --Hero!(talk)(contribs) 20:23, 31 August 2007 (EDT)
    • I also call claim to the Heroesclix. I claimed it, no-one else can claim it! I'm watching you all! I can seeeeee yoooouuuuu! --DocM 20:30, 31 August 2007 (EDT)

Novel template; new namespace?

There's a "Graphic Novel:" namespace, which allows the graphic novel sidebars to appear long or short, depending on which namespace they're in. Should there be a "Novel:" namespace, into which this page could be moved, to allow the same thing? --Psiphiorg 13:50, 10 November 2007 (EST)

  • Is there any reason to believe at the moment that there's going to be more than one novel?--Hardvice (talk) 14:06, 10 November 2007 (EST)
    • If the first book sells well, you can be certain that there will be more. Besides, nearly every science fiction/fantasy show that's lasted more than one season has had multiple novels published during their runs: Buffy, Smallville, Lost, Battlestar Galactica 2005, Roswell, Supernatural, and of course, Star Trek. I can't imagine that Heroes would be any different.
      On the other hand, you do have a point that no decision about future books has been announced yet, so perhaps it would be better to wait until the publisher has a chance to look over the sales figures before assuming there definitely will be more books. --Psiphiorg 19:04, 10 November 2007 (EST)
      • I agree completely. Heroes novels are almost inevitable. Once we get an announcement that more are coming, I'd say then would be the time to worry about setting up a separate namespace & category. Till then, this article is probably best left in Category:Promotions.--Hardvice (talk) 20:07, 10 November 2007 (EST)

Canonicity

So what level of canon should this be? I'm thinking near canon. --Hero!(talk)(contribs) 21:37, 13 December 2007 (EST)

  • It won't come out until after Christmas, so I haven't read it yet. But I think you're probably right--it'll probably be on the same level as Heroes Evolutions. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 21:53, 13 December 2007 (EST)
  • Yeah, the writers are working together with the author. I really mad it is coming out of the 26th and not earlier... hahaJason Garrick 22:27, 13 December 2007 (EST)
    • So ask for a gift certificate to [insert bookstore of your choice] for Christmas.  :-) --Psiphiorg 04:20, 15 December 2007 (EST)
    • I noticed Jason Garrick added some content from this on James Walker, so I figured it should be revisited. I don't think content from Saving Charlie should be included in character history since it is not from a canon source. It's not written by the writing staff, and shouldn't belong. But by all means, a plot summary should be put on this page.--Bob (talk) 16:05, 7 January 2008 (EST)
      • I got this book last saturday from the library and have just started on it. But from what little I've read I tend to agree with you, Bob. It appears as though the author consulted with the writers/producers from the show, but she didn't let them vet the final product. There are at least a couple differences from the show's storyline that have already been mentioned and that I now agree with (that they are actual differences).--MiamiVolts (talk) 16:20, 7 January 2008 (EST)
      • Not only should a summary be added to this page, brief mentions of notable events should probably be included in the Notes sections of appropriate pages, much like we did with deleted scenes from the Season One DVD. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 22:40, 7 January 2008 (EST)
        • The reason I put stuff for James is because he is not a major character so I didn't think it would hurt. I think SAving charlie is canon though. Jeph Loeb made the story but Aury wrote it. It was supervised with the writers so I don't see why it isn't canon. I stopped reading it but I started again. I got like 30 pages left. I start on a summary ASAP. Jason Garrick 17:00, 8 January 2008 (EST)
          • See Help:Sources#Canon. "For Heroes, the only official canon source is actual broadcast episodes. Any information that does not appear on screen is not considered part of the Heroes canon." In near-canon instances (like GN), refer to "Official Sources", where it states "Some non-canon information comes from the creators and broadcasters of the show". I'm not sure that the story was created by Jeph Loeb, but the point is that it was not written by anyone who works for NBC or is affiliated with the show. So, it is not an official source, but a fan creation. The writer was not hired by NBC like the GN writers are (most of which are writers for the show), so I just don't see how it's canon.--Bob (talk) 17:48, 8 January 2008 (EST)
        • Okay I feel like Hiro created a rift making everyone think the book is a fanfiction. IT IS NOT! Aury was HIRED by NBC to write this book. Jeph Loeb did provide the story for it. It IS canon. I think it falls under the same canonicity as g.n. But I just want to state this is NOT a fanfiction. Jason Garrick 20:08, 8 January 2008 (EST)
          • They never said that it was fan fiction. It would stand a snowball's chance in hell of being published if it were. They are just saying that since it wasn't written by anyone directly involving with the show, it's not as canon as , say Five Years Gone or Betty, Part 1. --Hero!(talk)(contribs) 20:13, 8 January 2008 (EST)
            • Jeph Loeb made the story so that is why I think it is semi-canon. And the writers must have looked over the book to make sure everything was okay. They wouldn't just let someone write it and not consult them. I think I read somewhere that the writers consulting her while she was writing the book. I forgot where though. o.O Jason Garrick 20:17, 8 January 2008 (EST)
              • The best parallel would be Star Wars or Star Trek novels. All of them are at least licensed by Lucas or Paramount. Several are written by writers involved with the core project, and others are (like SC) written from stories by TPTB. But none of them are part of the canon stories of SW/ST. That doesn't mean that the events they depict are wrong or bad or anything of the sort--only that they haven't been confirmed by a film or episode.--Hardvice (talk) 21:38, 8 January 2008 (EST)
                • That's true, and in addition the first part of the book re-tells the story of the events leading up to Hiro meeting Charlie, and it re-tells the events differently than the episodes have presented it. That doesn't make it a bad story, but it is a different one than the storyline used for the episodes and graphic novels.--MiamiVolts (talk) 21:55, 8 January 2008 (EST)
                  • FWIW, Saving Charlie is pretty heavily promoted and linked from NBC.com. That still doesn't make it canon or near-canon, though I don't see any problem with putting info from the novel into the Notes sections, much like we did with the DVD deleted scenes. Also, it would suck to have a canon source that you had to shell out $23 bucks to read, but that's my bank account talking, not me. :) -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 22:25, 8 January 2008 (EST)
                    • I'm reading a library copy. No money spent except for the gas to get to the library, which is just about a mile from my house. :)--MiamiVolts (talk) 22:28, 8 January 2008 (EST)
                      • With the price of gas, I think I'd be better off buying the book. :) -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 22:38, 8 January 2008 (EST)
                        • You driving a motorhome, eh? ;) FWIW, my library will mail books to my house for a couple bucks.--MiamiVolts (talk) 22:46, 8 January 2008 (EST)
                    • $9.99 for the Kindle edition. Best Christmas present ever.--Hardvice (talk) 02:25, 9 January 2008 (EST)
                          • Well you know what? I just saved a bunch of money on my car insurance by switching to Geico! XD Jason Garrick 21:50, 9 January 2008 (EST)

Timeline / Inconsistencies

Possible mistakes? If anyone has any ideas about these:
• Hiro sees the date when he travels to New York on a newspaper? (I seem to remember him being confused about the date after he sees Isaac Mendez)? (21)
• James Walker - Date of Death: August 19? (169)
• Hiro's "mother was alive and well" ? (212)--Heroes360 (talk) 17:51, 26 December 2007 (EST)

  • I'll probably not be able to begin reading this until at least next week, as I'm requesting a copy from my library and they're still cataloguing it, but here are my thoughts: Yes, Hiro saw the date on the Newspaper in NYC. That's how he knew he had three weeks to stop the explosion. I dunno about James Walker's death date, but we have it listed as October 2nd (that's when his frozen body was discovered)... Is it possible Sylar had kept him on ice for weeks on end? If Hiro's mom is alive and well, maybe Kaito remarried after Hiro's birth mom died?--MiamiVolts (talk) 19:51, 26 December 2007 (EST)
    • I should have said on a newspaper at the newsstand that he pick up the 9th Wonders comic from --Heroes360 (talk) 21:10, 26 December 2007 (EST)
      • Yeah, that would be different. In the episode, Hiro doesn't see the date until he is in Isaac's apartment.--MiamiVolts (talk) 21:23, 26 December 2007 (EST)
        • I haven't read Saving Charlie yet, but technically, Hiro did learn the date to which he traveled (namely November 8) from the New York Chronicle, a copy of which also happened to be at the newsstand where he picked up the 9th Wonders! comic. I'm curious to know the actual wording of the passage--there's not much room to allow for what was shown onscreen, but I can certainly devise a possible wording that would mean that Hiro learned the date from a newspaper which also happened to be at the newsstand. (In actuality, the New York Chronicle was held by the NYPD detective, I believe.) -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 23:56, 26 December 2007 (EST)
  • Regarding James Walker's death, Mohinder tells the FBI on October 11, 2006 that "James Walker in Los Angeles was killed nine days ago" (Fallout). That puts James's death at October 2, 2006, which also fits with the other events of Don't Look Back, the episode in which James is shown dead. I have no idea where in the world August 19th comes from. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 00:01, 27 December 2007 (EST)
    • August 19th was just what it said on the wall in James Walker's toe tag or something. It could of very well been his birthday or something, but Hiro took it to mean the current date. --PeterDawson 12:23, 28 December 2007 (EST)
  • Regarding Hiro seeing the date at the newsstand, that is Hiro remembering the event of his trip to New York so perhaps he simply misremembered the facts. Regarding his mother being alive and well, that passage took place in the sixties, so she would have been. Dirk Amoeba 23:44, 29 December 2007 (EST)
  • These explanations suit me just fine. I just interpreted them differently when reading. Thank you for these other interpretations. It's just, when something doesn't match up, my heart kind of hurts, you know? Hiro very well could have been wrong about the date on James, he could have incorrectly remembered the facts about the newspaper (a stretch, but he does say things like Holy cow! and Holy moley!), and I re-read the part about his mom, and it can surely be interpretted as she was alive at the time of the funeral Kaito was attending. Thank you all.--Heroes360 (talk) 17:51, 26 December 2007 (EST)--Heroes360 (talk) 23:51, 29 December 2007 (EST)

Character History

Will we include the events of Saving Charlie in the character histories of Hiro, Ando, Charlie, etc.?--Citizen 17:30, 29 December 2007 (EST)

  • I'd rather not since it's not part of the Heroes Evolutions information. However, my opinion right now (keep in mind that I haven't read the book) is that a note with significant events and information would be sufficient. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 09:51, 30 December 2007 (EST)
  • I wanted to add that if we do add character/locations entries for the new characters/locations in Saving Charlie, I think we should put them in a separate "Hardback Novels characters" and "Hardback Novels locations" categories. I don't think it's appropriate to use subpages for their histories (we have separate pages for some iStory characters/locations with no images), but I don't think they fall under the realm of Heroes Evolutions either since the content comes from print non-internet media.--MiamiVolts (talk) 22:33, 16 December 2008 (EST)
    • I concur. This is Heroes Wiki, afterall, and it should cover characters in all kinds of Heroes media. And we should make portal/categories for "Novel Characters", "Novel Locations", etc.--Citizen 06:32, 17 December 2008 (EST)
      • So, who has the book and can add the information? Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 08:59, 17 December 2008 (EST)
        • I just got the book, and I am willing to write a chapter-by-chapter summary, but MiamiVolts said he had half the book summarized, yet he refuses to add it to the wiki.--Citizen 09:48, 17 December 2008 (EST)
          • Pages about characters and locations unique to the book are fine, though it should be clearly stated that those are characters and locations from Saving Charlie. The book should not be considered part of Heroes Evolutions. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 09:59, 17 December 2008 (EST)
            • Maybe he wants to have everything done at once instead of little by little. Intuitive Empath - Talk - Contributions 10:00, 17 December 2008 (EST)
              • I just want there to be character/location pages pertaining to Saving Charlie, like we have them for the Evolutions content, webisodes, etc. The book may not be part of the ARG, but its part of the outside media of the show. The book even has the NBC logo on it. The story was provided by people who write/used to write for the show. I don't see why we shouldn't count the events from the book on the wiki.--Citizen 10:37, 17 December 2008 (EST)
                • I think we should put "Hardback" in the cat names to distinguish them from the "Graphic Novel" cats. Regarding the summary I'm still finishing, I'm putting my own on a blog off the wiki as I think that's the best place for it to serve both mine and the wiki's interests. Besides my worry for the wiki about how NBC and the publishers would look at such a comprehensive summary of a novel being sold for money, having it offwiki should mean I can maintain it indefinitely. I do not know how long Admin will maintain HW after the series is over, and this way I shouldn't have to move it if for some reason the wiki's doors ever close.--MiamiVolts (talk) 13:24, 17 December 2008 (EST)
                  • Miami, why are you so worried about that? The Star Wars wiki has summaries of all the Star Wars books, and you don't see anyone creating waves. And why post it on a blog when you can contribute to the wiki, seeing as the novel article is practically empty.--Citizen 13:49, 17 December 2008 (EST)
                    • Star Wars wiki isn't being funded by the Star Wars producers. We are now being compensated by NBC for our ads. It's a different situation, and I don't want to be responsible for jeopardizing or even risking that relationship. If that makes me sound selfish, so be it.--MiamiVolts (talk) 14:21, 17 December 2008 (EST)
  • With that said we should have Saving Charlie on here. Think about it... NBC would have to give permission for the book to be written in the first place. Which would mean that they get some sort of cut for every book sold. So let's go ahead in place information from the book onto Heroes Wiki since it would promote the book. I honestly don't see how that is "jeopardizing" the relationship. --OutbackZack 14:52, 17 December 2008 (EST)
    • I place a line or say there is a difference between making a short few paragraphs summary of the plot (which I think is okay) and a chapter-by-chapter synopsis that details everything like I'm doing so we can have comprehensive character article information. The question the publisher would probably point out is, why buy the book if you can essentially just read the story for free online? We might not violate copyright, but I doubt the publisher would be happy about it.--MiamiVolts (talk) 15:29, 17 December 2008 (EST)
      • It's not about detailing everything. When I say chapter-by-chapter synopsis, it's basically a short summary of each chapter so that the article can be more organized. And you're not reading the story online, just a summary, which is in no way the same ballpark.--Citizen 15:32, 17 December 2008 (EST)
        • In this case, I think you'll see when you begin writing that the chapters are rather short such that to summarize you essentially have to give everything away.--MiamiVolts (talk) 15:37, 17 December 2008 (EST)

Summary

Anyone feeling confident enough to summarize the book's content? --PeterDawson 18:09, 29 December 2007 (EST)

  • I'm probably going to write it. I got it yesterday and I'm already a third way through the book. So I'll do it as soon as I'm done. Jason Garrick 20:12, 31 December 2007 (EST)
    • Have you started on the summary, Jason? I just finished reading the book last night and am considering adding the summary to my todo list. I think it was an enjoyable, worthwhile read, though the ending was kind of a downer.--MiamiVolts (talk) 22:52, 17 January 2008 (EST)

Word of Caution

Having read the novel, I think we should warn parents that this novel may not be suitable for young children, and contains some sexual references. The majority of them are towards the end of the book so parents might not realize they are there at first glance. If I were going to rate it, it would definately earn a PG-13 rating from me.--MiamiVolts (talk) 22:52, 17 January 2008 (EST)

  • I'd give the same rating to Heroes itself. I don't think our function as a wiki is to warn parents. However, if we have a good summary, any questionable content should be evident automatically. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 22:57, 17 January 2008 (EST)
    • Yes, we should make it evident in the summary somehow. Also, I agree about Heroes itself also being PG-13, but that's more for gore and violence than for sexual content, imho. I'm assuming the summary will go into some detail for each chapter and worried about parents who might pick this up not knowing the difference, and who might not want to read through more than 50 chapters of summary before hitting the pleasantly naughty stuff. ;)--MiamiVolts (talk) 23:14, 17 January 2008 (EST)
      • Oh rly?--Bob (talk) 00:08, 18 January 2008 (EST)
        • Yes, and neither of those two link references were in Season 2.--MiamiVolts (talk) 01:12, 18 January 2008 (EST)
          • Yeah, I think describing what is going on in Hiro's pants and where and how he is touching Charlie is worse than what was on the show. I found it kind of disappointing that Hiro had his mind in the gutter more than Ando. When I got the book, I was going to give it to my little brother, but I decided to read it first, so I don't think I will give it to him. -Lөvөl 03:42, 18 January 2008 (EST)
          • I was making a point that there is sexual (or "mature" since they don't show it on screen) content in Heroes, namely the strip club moments, or Matt and his wife having sex on the couch, or attempted rape, etc. Granted, I wasn't aware of the explicit description occurring in the novel, but to say Heroes has no sexual content is incorrect, even if most of it was from Season One. It's still the same show.--Bob (talk) 10:26, 18 January 2008 (EST)
            • My comment was that there was more gore/violence in the show than sexual content, not that there was no sexual content in the show.--MiamiVolts (talk) 10:56, 18 January 2008 (EST)
              • I agree with MiamiVolts. There is definitely sexual content in Heroes, but there is a lot more gore. --Ice Vision (talk) 10:58, 18 January 2008 (EST)

Canonicity revisited

Having read the above posts, I still don't see why Saving Charlie is regarded less canon than the GNs... What differs between them? Also - we need to come up with a general rule how to deal with novels, and include it in Help:Sources. Pierre 14:20, 20 August 2008 (EDT)

  • The novels are on a case-by-case basis. The author of Saving Charlie consulted with the Heroes writers, but she didn't let them proof her work and it isn't published by NBC. Thus, it contains inconsistencies with the main storyline and as-such shouldn't be treated as canon.--MiamiVolts (talk) 15:05, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
    • Right, MV. And it's not just the inconsistencies that keep Saving Charlie from being canonical. (Otherwise we would have to throw out a number of episodes, too!) It really comes down to the fact that NBC is licensing Saving Charlie, but not producing it. It's an independent work sanctioned by the creators of Heroes, but does not contain an authoritative version of the storyline. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 17:42, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
      • Now, as far as Saving Charlie being canon, HeroesWiki is pretty clear that only the show itself is full canon whereas most other things are near-canon. I have read both MiamiVolts' and RyangGibsonStewart's ideas about the legitimacy of Saving Charlie as part of the overall Heroes story. I think that the novel is definitely part of the overall storyline. The Heroes writers, I believe, were all pretty clear that they meant for Saving Charlie to be a part of the overall Heroes story as much as they do the weekly graphic novels, the Evolutions content, etc. Even Heroes: The Mobile Game adds to the story (where at that point, the names "Maury Parkman" and "Arthur" were not yet mentioned on screen), yet even after Tim Kring said that there would be new content in the mobile game, there was a debate about whether or not we could change the wiki to add "Arthur" instead of "Mr." Petrelli. While this may be a case of "to each his/her own", my general thought is that if Tim Kring or NBC say that the information contained in a product (such as a novel or game) is part of the overall story, then the wiki should be updated accordingly. That said, whether or not Saving Charlie is canon, near-canon, or whatever you want to call it, the article needs some SERIOUS help. I would like to see a chapter-by-chapter summary, all characters and places added and updated, etc. This task is huge, but that is what this wiki is for. If I just read the novel yesterday and wanted to read a summary about the character of Mr. Roitz, I should be able to come to this wiki and read that summary. Another example I want to give is that when I was reading The Kill Squad, Part 3, I saw Lloyd Collins. If you have only watched the show, you have a different idea of Lloyd than if you have read the novel. All these scenes from the novel came flooding back into my mind about Charlie and Lloyd and Hiro that you just do not get from watching the show. ---Heroes360 14:52, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
        • I disagree that Saving Charlie should be considered canonical, and I have yet to see a quote from Tim Kring saying that it should be. I do agree that the page is in need of some help. I am not the right person to add summaries to the page, though. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 14:57, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
          • Saving Charlie has 55 chapters, several of which are less than a page long, I don't know if a chapter-by-chapter summary would work. -Lөvөl 04:27, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
  • I do not think that Saving Charlie is canonical in the sense that it is not one of the episodes, but I do think the story that it tells is part of the overall Heroes Universe story as much as the graphic novels are. I found this article with Tim Kring discussing the novel, and while he does not say it is "canonical", he says,

    "One of the more memorable relationships in Season One was Hiro's first love, the waitress Charlie. We were as smitten as Hiro by that story and seized the chance to tell the full adventure of Hiro's six months in the past. Aury Wallington was hand picked by the writers of the show for her brilliant voice for these characters. The novel is a welcome addition to the Heroes family".

    The article continues with:

    "The novel--written with the full cooperation and consultation of the show's creators--tells the story of Japanese office worker Hiro, who, through the use of his ability to pierce the space-time continuum and manipulate time, bravely catapults himself into the past to save Charlie, a small-town Texas waitress with an extraordinary memory, from being brutally murdered by super-powered serial killer Sylar (Zachary Quinto). While fans of the television series were given only a brief glimpse into Hiro and Charlie's relationship as it grew into love over six time-changing months, but their history is told here with the depth and insight that only a novel will allow."

    I realize that most of this information has been discussed before. The words "canon" or "near-canon" as defined at HeroesWiki may not properly describe Saving Charlie, but when everyone that works on Heroes says that the novel is part of the overall Heroes story, then I think that should give the novel some credibility as far as telling a Heroes story goes (as opposed to a fan-fic or something along those lines). I would guess that in the show's writers' minds, the events of Saving Charlie did take place (unlike deleted scenes, or scrapped ideas). Again, these are just my thoughts. ---Heroes360 19:39, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

    • I still have yet to see something that says that "the novel is part of the overall Heroes story". Sure, it's "a welcome addition to the Heroes family" (Del Rey licensed the characters from NBC, afterall), and the writers were consulted on major things (like how space-time manipulation works), but I don't see anything that points to the idea that the book tells the official version of how things happened. Aury Wallington said that she consulted with the writers and producers, but that she was ultimately given the freedom to create her own story. I completely agree with you, though, that Saving Charlie is a lot like a deleted scene or a scrapped idea--it's interesting information, but it's still not part of the show's canon. A good example is a deleted scene from Genesis: D.L. originally had a strange tattoo, and was supposed to serve two life terms--and was prosecuted by Nathan! All very cool ideas, all parts of deleted scenes--none of which are part of the actual history of the characters. I think history from Saving Charlie absolutely has a place on the wiki--I think interesting story points from the novel belong in the Notes sections of appropriate pages. However, to make a section in the character history containing information from the novel is to suggest that the events of the book are the official version of what happened to the characters, and that is simply not true (in fact, some of the events directly contradict things that happened in the episodes, if I'm not mistaken). Simply put, the book tells a good story, but is not part of the Heroes canon.

      I wonder if people feel that Heroes Wiki is not treating Saving Charlie with more oomph because so little has been done with the book on this site. There is no summary on the page (there should be) and there are very few mentions of the book on character pages (there should be a ton more). I have a feeling that once somebody steps up and beefs up this page and starts linking more info about the novel on other pages (especially character pages), then people will be much happier. However, the person to write those summaries will not be me. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 20:12, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

      • I wish it fit in better, There are several things that would be really cool if they were canon. I do think this page needs to be expanded, notes added to pages, and pages made for some of the characters, etc. I have been meaning to go through the book again and expand my page, but there are other things that have higher priority if I have time. -Lөvөl 04:27, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
    • It most probably is just me, but what I understand from reading several of the posts above is that the main reason for ppl not wanting to regard the novel as near-canon is that they a) don't like it. b) don't like that it on some levels is inconsistent. or c) don't wanna spend money on it. The fact remains that it is an official work within the Heroes universe. As such it definitely deserves more mentioning than in the "Notes" section of character articles. Pierre 05:35, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
      • Nope, the reasons you listed for people not wanting to regard the novel as near-canon for me personally have nothing to do with not liking it (I think it's a great book with a really cool story), its inconsistencies (graphic novels and even episodes have some inconsistencies, too--if we threw out everything with inconsistencies, we wouldn't have anything), or the amount of money it costs (it's only 10 bucks on Kindle, and I got mine free at the library--the money is just a side issue). In fact, it really has nothing to do with people not wanting to regard the novel as near-canon--the fact is that the novel is not near-canon, and is not an official work. Saving Charlie is licensed by NBC, but it is not part of the official canon of the Heroes world, despite any opinions people might have towards the novel one way or another. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 11:55, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
      • We would want to regard it as near-canon, but it's not. The main reasons there is not more information here is people a) don't wanna spend money on it. b) don't like it. or c) don't have time/ability to add it. -Lөvөl 12:32, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
        • Huh? Now you really confuse me - what makes something official canon if it's not that it is licensed by NBC and the Heroes creators???? Pierre 17:27, 24 August 2008 (EDT)
          • The episodes are the only things that are official canon. Graphic novels and Heroes Evolutions content are created by the shows creators, but they don't air on television, so they are near canon. Saving Charlie is not created by the show's creators, it is licensed by NBC--it is good information, but not canonical in any way. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 17:40, 24 August 2008 (EDT)
          • Bridget Bailey and the rest of the BBC stuff wasn't created by the show's creators either, though, if I'm not mistaken. Regardless of the fact that she has now been fully integrated into Heroes Evolutions, wasn't she conscidered cannon even before that ? If so, what's the difference between her and the novel ? --LeoChris 01:05, 25 August 2008 (EDT)
            • We did not even consider Bridget Bailey near canon until she was adopted by NBC. -Lөvөl 11:50, 25 August 2008 (EDT)
              • Right, she was simply a byline on the BBC page (which is less than I think she deserved, and less than I think Saving Charlie deserves on each of the appropriate character pages) until she was made a full-fledged part of Heroes Evolutions by NBC. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 12:55, 25 August 2008 (EDT)

Any new Books?

Sorry this is prob the wong place for it, but are there any new books planed for realsed? Thanks :).---Drwho113

  • The writers said in a Behind the Eclipse Q&A that they don't have any more books planned at the moment, sadly.--Citizen 15:26, 17 December 2008 (EST)
  • Kk, thanks for letting me know :). I was hoping for some background histroy about Ando or Sylar. Oh well.

4 Points (3 are Questions)

Should there be links to the episodes that Saving Charlie happens in? Like it says in the front, Seven Minutes to Midnight, Homecoming, and Six Months Ago? And also, is this considered Heroes Evolutions? Should there be pages for the characters(put on the Heros Evolutions character page portal if it is Heroes Evolutions)? And there is another book coming out: Heroes Revealed. --Iheartheroes 17:55, 7 September 2009 (EDT)

  • Yes, if you'd like to put links on this page to the episodes that are described in the book, that would make sense (so long as it's in a section that is written in a real-world perspective). Saving Charlie is not considered Heroes Evolutions. I'm not opposed to pages about the characters, but I believe that's been discussed elsewhere on this page. In either case, it should be remembered that the characters from Saving Charlie ride a really fine line between canon and near canon works, and fan fiction. I personally think it's best to keep the character descriptions on this page, as I believe they already are. I don't know anything about another book...but then again, I generally stay away from spoilers and the like. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 21:17, 7 September 2009 (EDT)

Tabula Rasa

On Hiro's note it said "Save Charlie". Does anyone besides me think that this could be a referrence to this book? Or just a general term-to do list thing? ~~IHHTalk 16:26, 2 November 2009 (EST)

Chapter Summaries

Does anyone have the book and if so could you please summarize it, I myself and im sure others as well would love to find out what happens. If its copyright or something and its illegal to do so then i understand Drngreen 10:36, 8 January 2010 (EST)

Appearance Page

Hey, just wondering, but are we planning on having Character Appearances for books like we do everything else? If so, I can get started on making a Character Appearance page and possibly rereading the book to get the order. ~~IHHTalk 20:32, 30 August 2015 (EDT)

  • I don't think so. Books are so different than episodes, webisodes, or even graphic novels. So often, characters are mentioned in unusual orders. So many of the characters from Saving Charlie are from Hiro's childhood, and only appear in Hiro's memories and thoughts. It's a narrative, so it's not quite the same as having a character appear in a filmed or illustrated medium. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 21:08, 30 August 2015 (EDT)
    • Right, that makes sense. So are the characters getting a character history section in the respective season, under the Heroes Evolutions tab or something? ~~IHHTalk 21:36, 30 August 2015 (EDT)
      • Yes. I'm starting with the ones that are specific to just Saving Charlie. But the other characters who appear in the book and the episodes (like Hiro, Lloyd, Sylar) should at least get a few sentences about their history in Saving Charlie. The Heroes Evolutions heading makes the most sense... -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 21:43, 30 August 2015 (EDT)
        • Okay, looking at the release date (since that is what we tend to use), it was released during the season two and three hiatus right before the Graphic Novel 10 Brides of Kensei. ~~IHHTalk 21:45, 30 August 2015 (EDT)
          • That's really helpful. Thanks. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 21:47, 30 August 2015 (EDT)
            • I just added stubs to all of the characters on the list that are already made. So now we just need to go fill them in when we get the chance and don't have to think "Who have we done and not done?" ~~IHHTalk 21:57, 30 August 2015 (EDT)
        • So, Heroes Evolutions was the interactive stuff that went along the show, of which Saving Charlie was not part. While I do think that info from the book should be included on any relevant pages, I don't think Heroes Evolutions is the correct place. I think we should come up with something else to put it under. -Lөvөl 21:50, 4 September 2015 (EDT)
          • Agree ... to an extent. First, I don't have another suggestion, but am willing to consider some other way to put it on the page. But also, Heroes Evolutions is now evolving into Heroes Universe, and the six new eBooks are part of the Heroes Universe. Saving Charlie is kind of like the stepchild that nobody knows what to do with. Any thoughts of where to put the information? -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 01:00, 5 September 2015 (EDT)

Move?

Should this be moved to Book:Saving Charlie? Up higher there was discussion about a "Novel:" namespace, do we want use "Book:"? And should there be a "Book:" namespace created first or will the fake namespace be ok? -Lөvөl 14:34, 3 September 2015 (EDT)

  • I'm fine with having a new namespace, but that would be up to Admin to implement. There would be a total of 7 books in the new namespace: Saving Charlie and the six new eBooks. I don't really have a preference right now of whether it should be "book" or "novel" -- probably "book", but we should also probably wait until September 25 when Brave New World is released. We definitely shouldn't do a fake namespace. -- RyanGibsonStewart (talk) 15:21, 3 September 2015 (EDT)